this post was submitted on 25 Nov 2023
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So RWKV 7b v5 is 60% trained now, saw that multilingual parts are better than mistral now, and the english capabilities are close to mistral, except for hellaswag and arc, where its a little behind. all the benchmarks are on rwkv discor, and you can google the pro/cons of rwkv, though most of them are v4.

Thoughts?

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[–] MichalO19@alien.top 1 points 10 months ago (6 children)

If I am reading this RWKV_v5_demo.py right this is essentially a Retentive Network (so a Linear Transformer) but without the positional encoding, with the token shifts from previous RWKVs, and with trainable matrix valued decay factors (instead of fixed decay factors like in RetNet).

Gotta say it's a pretty clean architecture but I will believe it surpasses Mistral when I see it. I don't think a linear transformer has a serious chance to beat a standard transformer with the same number of parameters.

It might have a chance for general 0-shot question answering, but I expect it to be much worse in particular for in-context learning/memory tasks, simply because the softmax attention is way more capable than linear attention as a learning algorithm (theoretically it can learn in-context any key->value mapping, while linear attention by definition can only learn linear key->value mappings (whatever that means in the embedding space), and also risks double-writing into memory things it already knows).

But hey, let's see.

[–] vatsadev@alien.top 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Hmm, will have to check this stuff with the people on the rwkv discord server.

V5 is stable at context usage, and V6 is trying to get better at using the context, so we might see improvement on this

[–] MichalO19@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago

If I understood correctly the original explanation on github for RWKV, BlinkDL agrees that softmax attention is very capable in theory but he thinks Transformers are not using it to full potential, so theoretically less capable architectures can beat them.

This might be true, but I kind of doubt it. I played a bit with the 3B RWKV with a prompt like

User: What is the word directly after "bread" in the following string "[like 20 random words]" 
Assistant: The word directly after "bread" is "

(note the preferred for RWKV ordering of a question before data, but I tested the other way around too) and unless the query word is very early in the string it gives me a random word. Even 1.3B transformer models seems to answer this correctly much more often (though not always correctly).

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