this post was submitted on 07 Jan 2024
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Climate - truthful information about climate, related activism and politics.

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Discussion of climate, how it is changing, activism around that, the politics, and the energy systems change we need in order to stabilize things.

As a starting point, the burning of fossil fuels, and to a lesser extent deforestation and release of methane are responsible for the warming in recent decades: Graph of temperature as observed with significant warming, and simulated without added greenhouse gases and other anthropogentic changes, which shows no significant warming

How much each change to the atmosphere has warmed the world: IPCC AR6 Figure 2 - Thee bar charts: first chart: how much each gas has warmed the world.  About 1C of total warming.  Second chart:  about 1.5C of total warming from well-mixed greenhouse gases, offset by 0.4C of cooling from aerosols and negligible influence from changes to solar output, volcanoes, and internal variability.  Third chart: about 1.25C of warming from CO2, 0.5C from methane, and a bunch more in small quantities from other gases.  About 0.5C of cooling with large error bars from SO2.

Recommended actions to cut greenhouse gas emissions in the near future:

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[–] psud@lemmy.world 18 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (13 children)

The biggest polluters are

  1. Transport 28%
  2. Electricity 25%
  3. Industry 23%
  4. Commercial & residential 13%
  5. Agriculture 10%

Agriculture (fertiliser, wild rodents, diesel, animals, rotting plants, not including plants wasted by consumers) is only 10%

We're making the best inroads into electricity. It is clearly possible and economical to convert all electrical grids to carbon neutral technology

We're starting to convert residential and commercial to entirely electric (except for the carbon and methane emissions from humans and pets, especially ones that eat beans) so that 13% is solvable

So at the moment 38% of greenhouse gases are easy, just needing political will

Another 23% is harder, industry needs some inventions, especially a green steel making process, and a green concrete making process. Both are years away and probably possible

Transport is hard. 6% is personal transport. That's easy to electrify. Trucking is harder, planes are harder still. I don't know how feasible wind power is for shipping, at least the trade winds blow the right way for Asia to America

The best bet for transport was a green liquid fuel, but the company trying to grow diesel from bacteria folded several years ago.

We are never going to decarbonise agriculture by abandoning any part of it. We can do a bit by practicing permaculture - that keeps more carbon in the ground; we can clean up animal agriculture by not feeding cattle human food, let them eat grass, and there is promising technology for reducing their (and other ruminants') methane emissions by feeding them seaweed

If we waved a wand and removed all farm animals from the world it wouldn't make a dent in carbon emissions or methane, cows would be replaced by deer which also make methane in exactly the same way cows do, but with no one feeding them seaweed

Uneaten grass would rot and be turned into methane (it's the same bacteria that work in cow and deer guts to break down grass). No one's treating rotting grass with seaweed.

Our best bet is to keep the marginal lands occupied by cattle and regulating people running cattle, requiring them to minimise their animals' emissions, or offset them

*Edited to fix typos

[–] MrMakabar@slrpnk.net 11 points 10 months ago (1 children)

The problem is only 9% of the beef production and 30% of global sheep and goat production are feed using grazing. The rest so most of them are feed using some form of human edible plants and they would not be replaced by wild animals. Furthermore it is something, which can be easily done today. We would still be able to produce enough food for every human on the planet and it would even be easier, as all the feedstock for animals would no longer be needed. So it really is a nice and easy few percent to get, which pretty much everybody can easily do themself.

https://www.fao.org/3/X5303E/x5303e05.htm#chapter%202:%20livestock%20grazing%20systems%20&%20the%20environment

[–] abraxas@sh.itjust.works -1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

The problem is only 9% of the beef production and 30% of global sheep and goat production are feed using grazing

The rest so most of them are feed using some form of human edible plants and they would not be replaced by wild animals

These two statements exclude the middle. There is grazing. There is feeding animal edible foods. And then there is feeding animals inedible waste. Your same source organization (FAO) points out that 86% of animal feed is inedible by humans. Realistically, a very high percent of that would be destroyed in a landfill or in burning if they were not being fed to animals.

Of the remaining 14% of feed that is edible to humans, they are the worst sorts of calories, empty and non-nutritious carbohydrates. And they are largely fed to the animal intentionally at certain parts of the feeding process (the end) to produce the highest quality of meat. Why? Because it's a waste of money to give animals feed that you could sell to humans if you have no good reason.

[–] Fleur__@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Grazing is terrible for the environment and crops are specifically grown as animal feed. It wouldn't be destroyed or burned because it wouldn't be grown at all. Additionally there are plenty of other uses for inedible plant waste other than feeding to animals.

[–] abraxas@sh.itjust.works -2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Grazing is terrible for the environment

Why do you say this?

and crops are specifically grown as animal feed

Generally speaking, this is untrue. A small number of crops are grown as animal feed, but it's a waste of money to grow human edible crops for a majority of the animal feed cycle. As I said above, 86% of animal feed is inedible to humans, and a majority of the remaining 14% are dead calories.

It wouldn’t be destroyed or burned because it wouldn’t be grown at all

I guarantee nobody is backing off on growing corn, wheat, rice, or soy right now, even if we suddenly stopped letting anyone eat meat.

Additionally there are plenty of other uses for inedible plant waste other than feeding to animals

Are there? Care to cite which uses exist for feed that are better than the efficient process of using livestock to create some of the objectively highest-quality human-edible calories that exist in nature?

[–] Fleur__@lemmy.world 7 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Devastates local ecosystems

It's not untrue food is literally grown to feed animals

Yes but I'm talking about the food grown to feed animals

Biofuel and compost

[–] abraxas@sh.itjust.works 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Devastates local ecosystems

Nope

It’s not untrue food is literally grown to feed animals

Actual nope.

Yes but I’m talking about the food grown to feed animals

So, you're talking about fiction

Biofuel and compost

Whatever that means.

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