this post was submitted on 02 Sep 2024
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Fuck Cars

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Highway spending increased by 90% in 2021. This is one of many reasons why car traffic is growing faster than population growth.

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[–] abfarid@startrek.website 16 points 2 months ago (49 children)

While I'm a strong proponent of reducing and possibly eliminating car use, this image is disingenuous. They neatly packed 69 (nice) people into a medium bus, sure. But when showing cars, it's almost 1 persons per car (I counted 15 cars in a row and there are 4 rows, so 60 cars). You can definitely use cars more efficiently than that.

Assuming that actually autonomous self-driving cars exist, they could be extremely efficient. Especially if you treat them like ride sharing taxis. In other words, a lot of people could share the same car and that would reduce the amount of owned cars. They also never waste space being parked. So I can see how when we make a real self-driving car, it can potentially reduce traffic. Especially for all those cases where public transportation doesn't work.

And what the heck is a "connected car"?

[–] yimby@lemmy.ca 23 points 2 months ago (16 children)

Two facts:

  1. The average occupancy of a car in my North American city is 1.2 people per car. This does not vary much by city.
  2. Autonomous vehicles will almost certainly be worse for traffic than human driven cars. They will circle empty with no passengers and drive to pick up passengers empty (dead heading) even with a fully rideshare system. If there is widespread private ownership of autonomous vehicles (and you bet your butt that car companies will campaign for this aggressively to keep sales up), the dead heading problems only multiply. If you don't believe me, look up any recent literature on the topic: by most accounts it will be worse, not better. Dead heading is only the tip of the iceberg of problems there.
[–] TheGalacticVoid@lemm.ee 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)
  1. How so? Wouldn't autonomous cars disincentivize car ownership, meaning fewer cars that can be on the road?
[–] dustyData@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

See the argument of induced demand: “Oh everyone is using self-driving cars, that means there's more space for my car!”

[–] abfarid@startrek.website 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I'm not a car owner, so I might be wrong. But I don't think it's normal for people to decide owning a car based on whether or not there's room for it.
Also, I think they meant that self-driving cars that will be taking non-owners to their destination. Since there's already a car that's taking me, I don't need to buy my own.

[–] dustyData@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

When people feel there's more room for cars/infrastructure is more hostile to walking, they are more inclined to buy and use a car. That's why adding lanes to highways never works to reduce traffic. You are not making more space for the same amount of cars, you're inducing non-car owners to switch and get one, or already existing car owners to use it more, resulting in more cars in circulation.

Similarly, autonomous cars are perceived as taxis which people irrationally perceive as emotional license to acquire and use a car. Narratives like cars as freedom or tech companies coming to take your car.

Sure, it is counter intuitive, but there's a billion dollar marketing industry dedicated to exploiting this and other similar cognitive biases. See green washing and the use of recycling to promote further consumerism. Or using health labeling to keep unhealthy foods in high demand, etc.

[–] abfarid@startrek.website 2 points 2 months ago

The problem you described sounds more like a side effect of the core issue – corporate greed. Cars can be bad, and overuse is a problem, but let's not blame them for the faults of the system. Until the core issue is fixed, nothings will be truly efficient and useful, because those aspects will be sacrificed to profit.

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