this post was submitted on 22 Sep 2024
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[–] frightful_hobgoblin@lemmy.ml 4 points 9 months ago (12 children)

They don’t understand though. A lot of AI evangelists seem to smooth over that detail, it is a LLM not anything that “understands” language, video nor images.

We're into the Chinese Room problem. "Understand" is not a well-defined or measurable thing. I don't see how it could be measured except from looking at inputs&outputs.

[–] space_comrade@hexbear.net 22 points 9 months ago (3 children)

"Understand" is not a well-defined or measurable thing.

So why attribute it to an LLM in the first place then? All of the LLMs are just floating point numbers being multiplied and added inside a digital computer, the onus is on the AI bros to show what kind of floating point multiplication is real "understanding".

[–] frightful_hobgoblin@lemmy.ml 3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

But it's inherently impossible to "show" anything except inputs&outputs (including for a biological system).

What are you using the word "real" to mean, and is it aloof from the measurable behaviour of the system?

You seem to be using a mental model that there's

  • A: the measurable inputs & outputs of the system

  • B: the "real understanding", which is separate

How can you prove B exists if it's not measurable? You say there is an "onus" to do so. I don't agree that such an onus exists.

This is exactly the Chinese Room paper. 'Understand' is usually understood in a functionalist way.

[–] space_comrade@hexbear.net 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

How can you prove B exists if it's not measurable?

Because I've felt it, I've felt how understanding feels, because ultimately understanding is a conscious experience within a mind, you cannot define understanding without referencing conscious experience, you cannot possibly define it only in terms of behavior or function. So either you have to concede that every floating point multiplication in a digital chip "feels like something" at some level or you show what specific kind of floating point multiplication does.

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