this post was submitted on 24 Oct 2024
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[–] ulkesh@beehaw.org 16 points 3 weeks ago (15 children)

I’m confused where you believe consumers are given choice here.

Data caps are usually scaled up with faster bandwidth, not the other way around as you attempt to define. And that’s simple marketing that attempts to excuse the use of data caps.

Also, data caps are artificial and are literally a money grab under the erroneous guise that data is manufactured and thus has intrinsic value. A congressman literally compared it to manufacturing Oreos — which is complete nonsense.

Also, if what you say is true, then why does AT&T impose no data caps on their fiber network? Clearly this is a marketing issue, not a technical one. And perhaps in the past with the way coaxial internet was engineered, an argument could be made for data caps. The industry has grown up since then, technically speaking, and there is no cause for data caps except to continue to line the pockets of ISPs.

I agree with you that working toward consumers having a choice of ISP is where most efforts should lie, but the FCC can walk and chew gum at the same time and remove anti-consumer practices such as data caps, all the while pushing for more competition at the last mile. They’re not mutually exclusive concepts.

[–] spoonbill@programming.dev 1 points 3 weeks ago (14 children)

I’m confused where you believe consumers are given choice here.

I'm confused by you being confused. Consumers can pick a subscription with a data cap, or they can pick one without. Maybe you can clarify what you are confused about?

Clearly this is a marketing issue, not a technical one.

Why not both? Marketing can be a great way to work around technical issues, e.g. by steering consumer behaviour in a way that avoids the technical issues.

Also, just because one network has sufficient spare capacity to not steer users to reduce data usage does not mean that every network does that. In fact this is where choice comes in: I can pick a provider which spends more money on the network, resulting in a higher costs, but also higher caps. Or I can pick a provider that spends less on networks, resulting in lower costs, but needing caps to make sure the limited bandwidth is sufficient for all customers.

The industry has grown up since then, technically speaking, and there is no cause for data caps except to line the pockets of ISPs.

You mean except the reason I gave, and you ignored?

[–] Vodulas@beehaw.org 5 points 2 weeks ago (9 children)

Consumers can pick a subscription with a data cap, or they can pick one without.

I am in a major metropolitan area and I do not have an option to have no data caps. Even the slow internet plans have them. I don't think you realize the stranglehold telecoms have on consumers.

[–] spoonbill@programming.dev 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

If there is no reason for caps, why wouldn't one of these companies simply remove them, giving them a competitive advantage, and making them more money? Why would one company reject making more?

Maybe capless actually costs them more due to bad infrastructure, and they don't see consumer demand for it? Forcing them to go capless would in that case result in higher prices.

Maybe they form a cartel and have collectively decided to keep caps. But why, if it doesn't actually cost them more to remove the caps? And if it does, then prices would again rise if forced to go capless.

[–] Vodulas@beehaw.org 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Around here they charge for going over your cap, so easy profit with no regulation would be the likely culprit. Also, you keep talking about competition, but there are 2 whole broadband companies in my area, and one does not have fiber/gigabit in my area. That is not what anybody would call healthy competition.

[–] spoonbill@programming.dev 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

Indeed two companies is not really competition. So why not focus on that, instead of reducing choice, which may lead to even less competition by making differentiation harder?

[–] Vodulas@beehaw.org 3 points 2 weeks ago

You act like I work at the FCC. The reality is the city has tried focusing on that in the past and failed because the contracts set up with the ISPs were renewed by the centrist city government. I think you are thinking of an ideal situation where one does not exist.

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