this post was submitted on 06 Jul 2025
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A Boring Dystopia

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The NYPD is skulking through the L train demanding IDs from Black and Latino men, again with zero justified cause or explanation as to why.

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[–] LodeMike@lemmy.today 117 points 3 days ago (20 children)

Reminder that there legally cannot be a crime such as "failure to provide identification" outside of specific contexts like actively operating a vehicle, etc. Lots of states allow cops to require you to provide your legal name (and sometimes address) when detained, and courts usually have the ability to compell the same.

[–] fushuan@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 3 days ago (5 children)

If lots of states allow cops to require you to provide your name and you don't, isn't that refusal to comply with a lawful order, and thus a crime?

[–] MonkRome@lemmy.world 22 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (3 children)

Failure to id is a secondary crime, you first need to be lawfully detained/lawfully suspected of a crime, before id can be demanded in 24 states. In the remaining states you need to be arrested before id can be demanded. Driving a motor vehicle is different though. As long as an officer had a reasonable reason for pulling you over, they can id you even if you dispell their suspicions prior to providing ID. If you're pulled over, it's best to always provide ID.

So it's only a lawful order if the police follow the law, if they just walk down the street randomly asking people for id, then failure to comply with their unlawful demands can be thrown out by the courts. Of course the police can just lie and make up a reason they suspected you of a crime, which is why some states have made things like "smelling marijuana" not enough on it's own.

[–] AlexLost@lemmy.world 7 points 3 days ago (1 children)

The driver can be IDed while driving, but no one else is obligated to provide proof of ID as they are not lawfully nor unlawfully operating a motor vehicle.

[–] MonkRome@lemmy.world 4 points 3 days ago

Good point to clarify.

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