Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.
In this community everyone is welcome to post links and discuss topics related to privacy.
[Matrix/Element]Dead
much thanks to @gary_host_laptop for the logo design :)
Well it's open source android, if the code is bad, it's jettisoned. While I cannot stand Google, not every line of code they write is trash.
The sandbox is good and you do not need to install Play if you do not want to. I use f droid where possible.
I want Linux Mobile but it is not ready yet. In the mean time, this is the best we have.
I have been using GrapheneOS on a Pixel 7 Pro for 3 months now. I am BLOWN AWAY at how good it is. I have 3 user profiles. Main profile has no google services at all, and 95% of my apps are running there. Then I have a second user I can switch to that has sandboxed google services and my banking apps on it. I then have a third user that also has sandboxed google services running where I can install any random app that demands google services. (I have only 1 app on that user) . So 99.9% of the time my phone is running with no google services at all. (Side note: without even the sandboxed google services installed, apps need to be left open in the app switcher in order to receive notifications. If you swipe all your apps away, then you won't receive notifications. This is not a problem for me, as I just keep my messaging apps open in the app switcher. But if it is a problem for you, you would need to run the sandboxed google services).
I see GrapheneOS as a way of removing 99% of all the tracking, spyware and things that I dont like, while still having the convenience of having all the apps and features that are available on a regular smartphone.
There is a learning curve, and many settings to learn and customize. But definitely worth it.
To get a Pixel, instead of paying ยฃ900 for a new pixel 8 pro, I paid ยฃ300 for a second hand Pixel 7 Pro on eBay that was in perfect condition. So for ยฃ300 I now have a privacy phone and an AMAZING camera, which was very important for me the camera.
if you have a pixel theres absolutely no reason why you shouldnt use it.
if you dont i dont think its worth to buy one just for graphene
GrapheneOS has something in store for everyone. The fully de-googled setup by the common definition a lot of people strive for is a fully supported configuration, it comes that way out of the box in fact, making zero connections to Google - unlike many other operating systems. But you can also transform it into a more "regular" phone by installing Google Play and all the bells and whistles and enjoy the benefits while still feeling save, thanks to the app sandbox applying to it. So you can take away its permissions and feel rest assured it can't snoop on you even if it wanted to. Or you take a middleground somewhere inbetween if that's your cup of tea; functionality is an important factor for many, and there's little you need to sacrifice.
Thats good to know. Thanks for sharing
I've been using GrapheneOS for over a year. I cannot complain about it, it works as advertised and it does it the best way possible. However, here's the list of things I find annoying/missing. Keep in mind, this is a subjective list.
It's a middleground between a regular stock spyware ROM and a degoogled one with pretty good security thanks to lockable bootloader.
P. S. I can hear the drama coming unfortunately. This ROM's devs have haters.
I've seen that you basically have two choice (more but not very relevant) GrapheneOS for security and /e/OS for privacy. Thoughts on it?
DivestOS is the most thoroughly degoogled of the android ROMs (it removes the most proprietary binary blobs). DivestOS is also decently security hardened, better security hardening than any other Android ROM other than GrapheneOS. But since it removes more of these proprietary blobs, it further reduces the attack surface of the ROM. Both GOS and DivestOS are good options. As commented by another user, /e/OS falls behind on security updates often, which is quite bad for a security or privacy focused OS.
/e/OS is not for privacy but more for anonymization. It has a built in VPN and a ton of spoofing stuff afaik. It's closer to Qubes if you ask me. And I heard it had proprietary software so ehh it's made to make you look like the most average internet user so you can search anonymously. I don't have enough information about this ROM but I wouldn't use it on my main device.
Why you wouldn't use it on main device?
Convenience, proprietary software and because it's not completely degoogled. I use LineageOS on my device and I'm happy with it. I can use Qubes or a VPN if I want an anonymous search.
LineageOS is more degoogled than others like eOS?
Like the other reply said, Lineage doesn't do a whole lot in terms of degoogling. I quite enjoy DivestOS, it's a project that takes Lineage as a base and strips out as much Google and proprietary code as possible.
In fact, it's so Google-free that neither sandboxed Play Services nor MicroG are officially supported, though the latter can still be installed and used just fine, though with a few drawbacks.
Same as Lineage, it runs on more devices, but certain features like bootloader relocking depend on the phone.
Microg has drawbacks?
Edit: sorry that's a question. What are they?
Some stuff won't work such as android auto
LineageOS actually seems to be getting less degoogled recently. They're adding stuff for better Google apps support (that can be installed manually). But I believe it's as degoogled as reasonable custom ROMs get. Not much advanced privacy/anonymization features though and no stuff like Play Integrity support obviously. It's a ROM for these who don't need gapps at all. And if you do, just buy a second hand device with the stock ROM and put your banking apps there. Play Integrity doesn't work well on any custom ROMs now anyways.
EDIT: also EOS is EndeavourOS that is a Linux distro.
There's a lot of false information in your statements, GrapheneOS is not spyware, and it does a better job at degoogling than any other ROM mentioned in this thread, the only one that comes close is DivestOS, and no eOS is NOT like Qubes...
GOS wanted to reduce the attack surface as much as possible so they removed all the unecessary Bloat, it doesn't even ship with wallpapers !!
This list is not exhaustive and covers a tiny bit of the differences between these custom ROMs but it's a good place to start
What I meant by a "middleground" is that GOS has gapps, even though they are sandboxed. There is no way it can be more degoogled than LOS or any other fully vanilla ROM that's actually degoogled.
That's also not accurate, GOS comes fully degoogled, and doesn't include any GAPPS or Google Play services, you have to install them yourself if you want compatibility with Google Apps or some banking apps
even though they are sandboxed. There is no way it can be more degoogled than LOS
That's just false, even LOS isn't fully degoogled and it still connects to Google in the background for necessary connectivity checks ( e.g. DNS ) and Esim activation for example
Not much to comment on the technical side, but quite a bit of things get upstreamed or reported from GrapheneOS. I believe they really know what they're doing. You can ignore the rest if you don't care for the general opinion.
Yes, there's probably Google code in the sandbox feature, it's basically the stock Android userland app sandbox. The magic is the compatibility layer that allows Google apps to run as regular userland apps.
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I bought a Pixel 7a, just so I could try GrapheneOS.
Installed it straight after unboxing, with Play services. Ended up using it pretty much like any Android phone. Installation is simple using the web installer. On recent versions, even Android Auto works, so the only thing you're really giving up is NFC payments. Some banking apps may don't work, but I'm lucky (or rather not unlucky) that the ones I use do. I believe those rare apps are somewhat lazily developed, and rely / trust on Google to do security for them.
Some months later, I went back to the stock ROM, mostly for comparison. Stock Pixel OS has a lot of appealing features, but most of those are just "nice to have" things. Stayed on stock for a few months, but the plethora of obscure Google "privacy settings" put me back to GrapheneOS, and finally off Google. Reverting to stock was also simple, just as easy as flashing GrapheneOS.
Now I don't have Play services at all anymore, and have cleared most Google services (gmail, photos, drive...) so at least not much new data will go there. I do use Google Camera, and have Photos installed since I think the post-processing happens in Photos. Both have network permission denied, which is one of the nicest added features of GrapheneOS. The stock GOS camera is OK, but that's one thing I think Google does better, though this is a subjective thing.
The only thing I kind of miss is Google's find my phone stuff. Even though it's quite invasive, I have needed it once and it resulted in me getting a lost phone back. A simple solution is not to lose your phone.
Apart from the per-app network permission, another really nice feature in GrapheneOS are the settings to toggle WiFi and Bluetooth off automatically. Why these are not in any "official" ROM tells a tall tale about how much they care about your privacy. The auto reboot if not unlocked in a while also brings some assurance regarding losing your phone, at least the storage will automatically back in encrypted unlocked state.
Vanadium might be the best browser I know for Android. Pretty much Chrome without all the things that make Chrome one of the worst browsers. Vanadium's point is security, privacy (e.g. adblockers) is not the main focus. I'm not sure if there actually even is adblock features bundled nowadays.
If you want all the nice modern bells and whistles, stay on some other OS. If the benefits above appeal to you, there's really not much you give up in the end with GrapheneOS. It requires a bit more technical mindset, but not really even technical know-how. I haven't noticed bugs or broken stuff anywhere, with or without Play services. Android Auto (requires Play services) gets stuck sometimes, but that may also be my low-tier car too.
The "sandboxed" Google Play refers to the apps running as user installed apps vs the system-wide root-access-to-everything apps they are on stock. The same limitations you can apply to any other app you install apply to GSF apps too. So even if you install Play services, you are severely limiting the scope of data Google gets from you. It's a solid middle ground between full degoogling and stock OS.
I'm not even an Android app developer, and will gladly admit technical mistakes. If you want something negative, the vocal minority of GOS users is really vocal and really full of themselves.
I used it for quite a while, but with most of the Google apps. One morning RCS chat stopped working and would not reconnect, since I use RCS for texting most people I'm back on stock for now. I know it's not graphenes fault, but I didn't want to have to keep dealing with Google randomly disabling stuff. Up until then, everything worked as it was described
FYI, there's a workaround for RCS in the graphene forums. Graphene changed some defaults to block IMEI reading (a hidden permission), which RCS needs in order to activate...
https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/1353-using-rcs-with-google-messages-on-grapheneos/308
That should take you to the post that worked for me.