this post was submitted on 18 Jan 2025
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Vincent Oriedo, a biotechnology scientist, had just such a question. What lessons have been learned, he asked, from Harris’s defeat in this vital swing county in a crucial battleground state that voted for Joe Biden four years ago, and how are the Democrats applying them?

“They did not answer the question,” he said.

“It tells me that they haven’t learned the lessons and they have their inner state of denial. I’ve been paying careful attention to the influencers within the Democratic party. Their discussions have centred around, ‘If only we messaged better, if only we had a better candidate, if only we did all these superficial things.’ There is really a lack of understanding that they are losing their base, losing constituencies they are taking for granted.”

“We have set ourselves up for generational loss because we keep promoting from within leaders that that do not criticise the moneyed interests. They refuse to take a hard look at what Americans actually believe and meet those needs.”

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[–] kescusay@lemmy.world 126 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (32 children)

While that's true, choosing to vote for Trump, a third-party, or not at all is like saying, "I don't like this ham sandwich and I don't like my sandwich choices... so I'm going to eat this dog-turds-and-radioactive-glass-shards sandwich instead!"

This country is fucked.

Edit: Rather than respond below to every comment, thought I'd clarify a few things here.

  1. I never said Democrats didn't fuck up. They certainly did.
  2. But - and this is important - we can't ignore the roles that racism, sexism, and above all misinformation played. To pretend there was none, and that vast swaths of the electorate didn't fall for it, would be disingenuous.

Democrats have moved to the right, and hurt themselves doing so. That is true. But they are still objectively superior to Republicans in every conceivable way. People who voted Republican voted for the Leopards Eating People's Faces party because they were angry about Democrats being imperfect, and their faces will be eaten.

[–] FaceDeer@fedia.io 156 points 1 week ago (29 children)

You're missing the lesson too, ironically.

The voters didn't like what the Democrats were offering them, they wanted change, and they wanted it badly enough that they went ahead and ate that dog-turd-and-glass-sandwich.

You're saying "they shouldn't have eaten that, the sandwich the Democrats were offering was better." Okay, well, they did it anyway. So you're wrong. The Democrats were wrong. They've been wrong multiple times now. They're doing the "Am I so out of touch? No. It's the voters who are wrong." Meme.

America's a democracy. The voters aren't wrong, as much as you might personally disagree with their choice. If you want a different government you have to offer them one that they'll vote for. That may require some compromises, but that's part of democracy.

I hope that they get it this time. This is the second time in recent memory that they've made this mistake. Even Biden's election was closer than it should have been. I really hope that the DNC gets its head out of its ass and cleans house, but articles like this are disheartening.

[–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works -1 points 6 days ago (5 children)

This is a bad take that I keep seeing.

Yes, the DNC fucked up massively. They should definitely have done more to convince voters.

But the voters who voted Trump/3rd party/abstained because of that are also morons who fucked up massively.

Both things are true. The DNC's glaring mistakes do not absolve the voters of their agency. The lesson isn't that the dog-turd sandwich eaters are rational actors, it's that the DNC needs to take into consideration people being irrational morons if they want to win. But at the end of the day, they're not the ones eating the sandwich. Voters have their own lesson to learn.

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[–] Majorllama@lemmy.world 78 points 1 week ago (26 children)

I live in a deep blue state. Family is all very blue. They have learned absolutely nothing. They all think what the Democrats did was perfect. Kamala was flawless. She didn't get elected because America is racist AND sexist.

They genuinely believe that there was nothing they could have done to improve.

I think they are gonna have to learn this lesson a few more times before they pull their heads outta their ass finally. I hope.

[–] alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml 54 points 1 week ago (4 children)

It won't happen. Every election in the last 25 years, including midterms, where the democrats tried to play to "moderate republicans", they got wiped out.

[–] Quill7513@slrpnk.net 44 points 1 week ago (6 children)

and they keep trying to dislodge "sane" republicans because they'd rather maintain centralized power than risk a grass roots movement distributing power to the masses. dyed in the wool democrats prefer fascism to meaningful reform

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[–] Whirling_Cloudburst@lemmy.world 115 points 1 week ago (3 children)

People want real fucking change. One man stood up against a massive evil health insurance company and regular people from all sides of the political spectrum support him.

Dems could have won if they were willing to do the same and no one would even need to be hurt to do it.

Naturally, there are a host of other problems mentioned in this thread. The trouble is that there is too much free $peech from the ruling class in politics.

[–] oakey66@lemmy.world 58 points 1 week ago (8 children)

I think for people like me, the biggest fuck you was from Obama. He ran on hope and change. He ran on at least a public option. And he went into the office and literally shut down the ground operation that swept him into his position and then basically spent 8 years appeasing Republicans despite the fact that people wanted transformational change. That's why they picked him over Clinton. He delivered Romneycare, bank bailouts, and drone wars.

[–] futatorius@lemm.ee -3 points 6 days ago (1 children)

and drone wars

I'd have been fine with the US killing even more Al-Qaida and Taliban members, even those that happened to be US citizens fighting alongside their comrades in a combat zone. Every single one of them would be about right. And if you're squeamish about drones, let's be real, you are really just squeamish about warfare, because every other form of killing in warfare is just as brutal and most are far more indiscriminate.

Also, as soon as Trump got in the first time, he changed rules of engagement to take less account of civilian casualties.

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[–] immutable@lemm.ee 56 points 1 week ago (6 children)

And when people wonder why it’s so hard to get out the vote, I think this is a key reason why. I’m old enough to have gone to Obama’s rallies, knock on doors for his campaign as a volunteer, vote for him and watch with joy as he won.

Hope and change. After the George W Bush presidency and the war on terror, it finally seemed like it was time for the pendulum to swing back.

And then every issue they came to the table with a position already in the center in hopes of appealing to the republicans who would then hold their breath and kick their feet and then it would slide further and further to the right until they were holding up romneycare as a progressive victory while also getting completely destroyed in the court of public opinion for passing romneycare.

I knew a lot of people that were very excited for Obama the candidate and completely disillusioned by Obama the president.

And I await the apologists to come out and tell me how he had to do it this way, they only had a super majority for a few weeks. Sure if the republicans have the slimmest majority they rewrite the tax codes and give away trillions to the wealthiest, and if they are in the minority they still somehow get their policies passed. But when democrats have power, well you see, government takes time. They can’t possibly just have the bill ready and call for a vote, you see, that’s just not how it works.

You can only tell people so many times. Vote blue and we promise this time, this time, we will make it better. I know last time we didn’t, but it was because of the blue dogs, or Joe Lieberman, or Joe Manchin. Sure, we have no plan to get rid of those people or other spoilers and we will doggedly support them in every primary… but somehow this time will be different.

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[–] Stern@lemmy.world 59 points 1 week ago

We have set ourselves up for generational loss because we keep promoting from within leaders that that do not criticise the moneyed interests

Evergreen quote-

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it." - Upton Sinclair

[–] makyo@lemmy.world 51 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (12 children)

Honestly I think this article is completely wrong. I'm convinced modern elections are 100% based on vibes and so better messaging and a better candidate would have meant a great deal.

But to add to that - Trump and his idiot base had been messaging and memeing for four years starting with Covid and masks and then inflation and 'I did that' stickers of Biden at the gas pump. Biden had barely done any messaging even up until the point he dropped out which, in the social media era, should be obviously big fucking warning signs of a losing campaign.

EDIT - which is not to say I don't think the Dems need to change in other ways because they absolutely do.

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