this post was submitted on 01 Nov 2023

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[Kikuchi Nakagawa] Anybody got experiences with the brand? (alien.top)

submitted 1 year ago by JeffTheExodon@alien.top to c/watches@style.land

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I was really intrigued by their design and really liked the murakumo but after looking through their website I got quite "weary".

To start with their lead times are currently 132 to 144 months, with a 45% deposit. That seemed a bit insane to me but I thought it might be understandable since their a small operation and if everything is done by hand.

However, reading along, literally every single part of their watches are made by outside companies, case, movement, hands, dial. They only seem to do the assembly and finishing, along with design I'd presume. And the watch has a closed caseback, so the movement finishing doesn't even matter.

I don't mind a company not using in-house movements. And I expect a microbrand that costs a couple hundred, maybe a few thousand, to only do assembly and finish. But for 20k+, I'd expect at least some manufacturing actually being done by them. I also don't really understand the ridiculous lead times, in that case. I'll give them credit though, as their extremely transparent on their website about everything.

I was really excited by their watches but the more I read, the more disappointed and turned off I got. Am I completely wrong here? Would love to hear if anything actually has one of their watches. Or just some opinions.

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[–] JeffTheExodon@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

The murakumo since I forgot to put the link in the post.

[–] zinterz@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Blame Ed Sheeran. He loves them, and they’ve seen a huge spike in demand since mentioning them on Hodinkee a year or so ago, and again recently. I like the look of them, but not enough to even think about their purchase process.

[–] JeffTheExodon@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ahh ok, didn't know that thanks. I was looking at brands like dornblüth and hentschel when I found them. They also can have longer lead times but with them it's a year or so. I also really liked their designs and looking at the specs, I thought they'd be in a similar range, as those other two.

However, as you said with that kind of purchase process, it's just not an option. I think they stopped taking orders anyway but was still curious about the brand.

[–] seykosha@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

Reminds me of the lymph node disease, kikuchi.

[–] ilkless@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It is in that tier of esoteric independent watchmaking that is for those who don't just buy a watch -- they buy a maker and the story.

Outsourcing to specialists is actually a historical legacy of Swiss watchmaking before industrialization. Even now there are small independent workshops or artisans obsessively dedicated to making 1 aspect or component used in watchmaking for B2B clients.

The prime example is Jean-Pierre Hagmann for watch cases. Google his client list before he went in-house at Akrivia.

What is absolutely insane with the Kikuchi is the hand-done black polishing of the case and hands. Let me put it this way, even Patek only does this for some small movement components. These guys are doing the same, at an even higher level of artisanship, for an entire watch case and intricate large watch hands.

This tier of watchmaking is for people with the sort of spare time, inclination, disposable income to travel to Switzerland at a whim with their other watch buddies with 3-500k in essentially bespoke time-only watches from esoteric indies that cost more than a Patek high complication, bundled up in a watch roll, wining and dining the likes of Vianney Halter or Voutilainen.

[–] JeffTheExodon@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

they buy a maker and the story.

I guess that might be a bit that I'm missing. My first priority is the watch itself, the makers story, ideology, etc comes later. I just think that too often companies use a lot of fuff to distract from the actual product.

Focusing on one part of the watch to absolut excellence is something I completely understand. And their black polishing is most definitely gorgeous. But I think the whole of the watch should still be considered and I think in this case other aspects of the watch suffer a bit. I'm sure tastes and points of priority differe but a well finished movement is just a must-have for me, for a dress watch at this price point. And I'd be completely fine with seeing a well finished voucher movement, their great. But hding it a away is just not something I personally understand.

I gotta say, you kind of loose me in your last paragraph. It sounds a bit pretentious and like something, I'd roll my eyes at in a hodinkee article. It's still just a watch we're talking about here.

Just seems like it's not the brand for me. Appreciate your insights.

[–] umbro_tattoo@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

I have the ultimate flex of having followed him on Instagram since his wait times were only 6 months! crazy to see him blow up so rapidly

[–] Artorias_the_hollow@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

It looks like a $20k Baltic mr01. Absolutely ridiculous price for a watch that nobody would care about if Ed Sheeran hadn’t talked about it.

[–] Flumpie3@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

I wanted one of these. Almost put a deposit down when it was ~ 20 months but the wait time was too long. Now it is fucking insane.

[–] carcassus@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

I had the pleasure to visit Dornbluth & Sohne at their workshop in Kalbe. You can get a customized watch with in house caliber (q2010) completely to your own desires for 12k. No brainer compaired to this.

[–] Corleone11@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I’d get a PP Calatrava instead. This right here is a watch you should consider buying when you already have 15+ watches. Giving them a free credit is also stupid.

[–] ilkless@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

Exactly. It's a watch for those where even PP is roo pedestrian. It's for the collector who is familiar with the De Bethune/MB&F/Urwerk level of watchmaking, not PP/AP/VC/Rolex/Lange.

Who else could justify a watch solely focused on being a showpiece for a particular style of polishing to the exclusion of all else for 20k and a 10 year wait? Only the guys used to waiting almost a decade for a Dufour or Vianney Halter or Journe high complication.

[–] Lonely-Elderberry@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

The polishing on these is absolutely insane. Insane. There is no watch close to these for steel case polishing in the world. Insane.

[–] carlo106@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

I know Ed Sheeran has some, at least it appears in the new talking watches.

[–] National_Shake9070@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

I’ve been in communication with the brand and they’ve indicated that they are hiring another watch maker which should increase production by 60%.