Its not really meant for privacy. Its a great rom for keeping an old phone up and going but you should consider divestos or grapheneos if privacy is your main concern.
this post was submitted on 15 Aug 2023
49 points (85.5% liked)
Privacy
31934 readers
712 users here now
A place to discuss privacy and freedom in the digital world.
Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.
In this community everyone is welcome to post links and discuss topics related to privacy.
Some Rules
- Posting a link to a website containing tracking isn't great, if contents of the website are behind a paywall maybe copy them into the post
- Don't promote proprietary software
- Try to keep things on topic
- If you have a question, please try searching for previous discussions, maybe it has already been answered
- Reposts are fine, but should have at least a couple of weeks in between so that the post can reach a new audience
- Be nice :)
Related communities
Chat rooms
-
[Matrix/Element]Dead
much thanks to @gary_host_laptop for the logo design :)
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
I've heard graphene isn't maintained any longer than Google pixel updates. So 5 years.
This is for security concerns, because all the firmware and driver are maintained by first party, so once the first party stopped maintaining firmware, there is no way for graphene to make the device as secure as a phone that is still in its support period.
At that point, you can try to switch to lineage to increase the life of your device.
That being said, graphene do offer extended support for some devices like pixel 4(XL) is still supported right now, but it made it very clear that it is "extended support", and it exist only to help user transition to their next device.
At that point, you can try to switch to lineage to increase the life of your device.
Which basically brings me to my question, how is LineageOS for should I call it basic privacy.
It is okay for privacy, especially if you dont have google app installed, but it is not security and privacy focused.
If you have google app installed I imagine it is probably as private as stock os on a pixel, but less secure. Graphene/calyx will definitely have better security and privacy than lineage with or without gapps.
But I understand there is other tradeoffs besides just security and privacy, like minimizng ewaste, cost, availability, etc.
It's good for general computing, and if it's off the internet it's good for anything. But if it's networked don't trust it with things you're not comfortable being at higher risk.
So watch YouTube fine, banking maybe not
The context here is a phone that's no longer receiving hardware security updates, not lineage OS itself. If you put lineage on a modern phone getting updates, then I'd be comfortable using it as a standard phone doing all the standard things including online banking
Even without explicit installation of GApps, Lineage still uses and connects to quite a few Google services in the background.
It's a great way of keeping older devices up to date, but not much more than that.
Yes, this is the crux of LineageOS. There is a fork called DivestOS that is more libré and reduces dependence on Google services, as well as having bootloader re-locking for some devices.
Divest is pretty great, I use it myself
It's more like a way to make your devices insecure by unlocking your bootloader, disabling Verified boot and letting all kinds of malware persist on your device as well as allowing anyone with physical access to your device to modify the system partition and load malware onto it.
It's a trade-off, everyone needs to decide for themselves
Sure, but DivestOS is better for old devices as it supports bootloader relocking and it's just much better for both privacy and security. If you want the most secure mobile OS on a modern sevice, go for GrapheneOS on a Google Pixel (which also has hardware security with the Titan M2 secure element).
Divest doesn't officially support MicroG or Sanboxed Play Services though, which can be an issue depending on what apps you need.
Lineage will still be the better option for most people because of this, unless they actually need to buy a new phone anyway
I haven't tried microG on DivestOS yet, but from my experience on CalyxOS (before I switched to GrapheneOS) I can tell that it works really well. Doesn't really matter whether it's officialy supported, you can just install it yourself.
After reading up on it on the DivestOS page, it mostly seems to work, with the exception of SafetyNet
https://divestos.org/pages/faq#microgOptions
Some apps require SafetyNet to work, while the option to enable it currently exists it will not work in the unprivileged mode that DivestOS uses and will be removed in a future update.
But then again, the whole point of the DivestOS project is to remove as much Google and other proprietary code as possible.
So if someone wants to use DivestOS specifically, they likely don't use any apps that need microg.
Right, SafetyNet. I haven‘t tried banking apps (or anything else that requires SafetyNet) with microG, but SafetyNet is just a flawed system in general. Even on GrapheneOS, with the proprietary Google services running in a sandbox, only SafetyNet basic integrity can be achieved, because the OS needs to specifically be whitelisted by Google order to get full integrity. It‘s a ridiculous monopolistic move by Google. I just never use banking apps on my phone, I have a dedicated small and light laptop only for banking, that I can also take on a trip if I need to do anything related to banking on the go. I do this for extra security, so my banking is separated from all my other digital activities, but I‘ve heard that basic SafetyNet integrity that be achieved on GrapheneOS is enough for many banking apps.
Well, flawed or not, it's what we need to use if our apps are dependant on it. I guess I'm lucky that my bank doesn't push their App, and even recommends Firefox alongside the other Browsers for Online Banking.
As I said, I don’t do banking on my phone, but if I needed to use a banking app and it was unsupported on GrapheneOS I would honestly consider switching to another bank. The system of banking is flawed as well, that’s why I try to use Monero as much as possible.
Most banks are just massive dicks. Don't you love it when your consultant tells you they have your best interest at heart
When they do this, I just laugh at them and tell them them to stop pretending. Is this rude? Maybe. Is it the truth? Definitely.
Edit: It's not just banks. Insurance companies and publicly traded corporation in general are just there to screw you over. I'm not a socialist or anything like that but I gotta say: The capitalist system is flawed. (Every system is flawed, a perfect system doesn't exist but it's pretty bad with capitalism)
load more comments
(1 replies)
It is good for privacy as long you do not install Google Play Services and also do not download any apps that is bad for your privacy. However GrapheneOS is a better option which additional security benefits.
I'd say neutral. Since you can install gapps (e.g. Playstore, gmail) for convenience and less privacy. Or microG instead of gapps.
You can't rely install that. There can be microg (not sure if it's in the distributed rom), but there is no system integration with microg, so G apps cannot work. Neither a lot of apps based on play services.
Microg however offers a modified LineageOs rom where they have installed the system integration for micro G. On that rom, the G apps and apps requiring G services do work.
Maybe it could be a bit more privacy friendly than using the direct Google services, but it still connects to Google to get some services for some apps.
It's pretty good for privacy, the main issues with LineageOS is that it's often less secure than the stock OS, as long as the stock OS is getting updates.
It's only less secure in a rare circumstance that a bootloader compromise happens by theft or advanced malware. If you're not doing stupid stuff on your phone you probably won't get advanced malware on it, and most thieves probably don't even know what a bootloader is, so IMO the security is good enough.
So the practical benefits of improved privacy and removal of bloatware etc are a much more significant benefit over stock android. I won't use a phone with stock android at all after getting used to Lineage and Graphene
It's good as long as you don't install Goole play services but doesn't have some of the extras privacy centric roms people will recommend you (only usable on a Google Pixel) have.
From what I get, if your phone is anything other than a Pixel still within supported lifetime, then LOS is decent. At that point it's mostly a hardware tradeoff (use a phone that all of has active lifetime support, is bootloader-relockable and has Custom ROM support) than a software one.