this post was submitted on 28 Jul 2026
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[yellow, a finger up, looking smug]
The answer to oppression is NEVER violence
Turn the other cheek
Pacifism always wins
You could earn rights by asking nicely instead

[yellow, proudly showing us a huge book]
Don't believe me?
Open a history book!

[yellow, looking frustrated as they are shuffling through the book's pages]
Ok so…
Uhm…
Not this page…
Wait…
The next one…
Awkward…
Another…
Yeah but…
For sure this time…

[yellow, sweating, protecting their book, a hand raised towards us]
Can you stop looking?
You're being rude
That's my book

https://thebad.website/comic/please_resist_responsibly

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[–] cynar@lemmy.world 105 points 5 days ago (4 children)

For best results, you need a trifacta.

A popularist movement is core. This should be non-violent and as welcoming to new members as possible.

A political group then acts as a focus for the group. It translates the mob grievances into politically actionable demands.

A radical group acts as the teeth. It forces the government to take proper notice of the other 2 groups.

The Irish troubles would be a good example. The popular movement was ignored by the UK government. It bubbles over into riots etc at times, which actually hurt their message in many ways. The Sinn Féin party focused the discontent and gave the UK government someone to negotiate with. Finally the IRA provided the force on the UK government.

Take away any leg and the whole movement stutters. If the popularist wing gets violent, then it bleeds members fast. Without a political wing, the movement is unfocused and will achieve nothing. The violent wing can be dropped IF there is sufficient threat of its existence/creation to keep governments motivated. Unfortunately, most governments that let things escalate that far will just dig in their heels, rather than do the sensible thing.

[–] Signtist@bookwyr.me 11 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Another important aspect is that the radical group isn't denounced by the popularist or political group. They don't have to be friends, but they can't be enemies. What I'm seeing these days is protestors actively shutting down any potential violence from their side, self-governing to the point where the people in power don't have to do anything to keep the whole thing in check. Without that fear for their life, the people in power can ignore the civil resistance members while allowing them to keep their more violent peers in check, along with a bit of police presence for good measure.

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[–] bagsy@lemmy.world 12 points 5 days ago

If a person wanted to learn more about this idea ans others like it, what should i go searching for?

[–] Aralakh@lemmy.ca 15 points 5 days ago

That's a well done analysis, thanks for the insight.

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[–] JasonDJ@lemmy.zip 41 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (4 children)

Public Education in the US LOVES Martin Luther King Jr.

Barely ever any mention of Malcom X.

I hold that nobody would've listened to MLK if the alternative wasn't Malcom's approach.

[–] raze2012@lemmy.world 24 points 5 days ago

The Black Panthers did more to advance gun control laws than any "radical left hippie kumbaya" ever did. Let minorities have the same freedoms and suddenly things need to be toned down for everybody.

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[–] mlg@lemmy.world 14 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Nonviolent India Independence Movement

Looks inside

A shit ton of violence

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[–] nelly_man@lemmy.world 17 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

FYI, there is a difference between nonviolence and pacifism. Pacifism opposes violence altogether and is predicated on the idea that there is a peaceful way to settle all disputes. That is to say, it's a philosophical or ethical position. Nonviolence is a strategy to achieve your goals without employing violence. Nonviolent protesters do not take violence off the table altogether. Rather, they believe that violent actions are not as likely to achieve their goals as nonviolent action would be.

In general, nonviolent action is taken by groups who are opposing an oppressor that has a significant power advantage over them. By resorting to violence immediately, they play into a game that they are destined to lose. Instead, they strive to use nonviolent means to make their struggle impossible to ignore. It relies on the oppressive system being vulnerable to a change in public opinion. In general, it also involves an implication that they may someday resort to violence if things do not change. That is, it differs from pacifism in that it does not deny that violence may be necessary.

[–] jtrek@startrek.website 5 points 4 days ago

Unfortunately, the idea of "then we go into the board room and execute all those assholes" has a certain emotional appeal that's absent from "we'll boycott, vote, run better candidates".

More active resistance like strikes or blocking production are a little more poetic, but tend to draw violence

[–] TheStaffmaster@lemmy.world 14 points 4 days ago

The ruling class didn't get to be the ruling class by being convivial. If you want a peaceful, classless society you need to treat it like a bonsai tree: occasionally you must nip things in the bud.

[–] BlindPenguin@lemmy.world 15 points 4 days ago

History be like:

[–] cogitase@lemmy.dbzer0.com 42 points 5 days ago (7 children)

In an examination of 323 violent and nonviolent resistance campaigns, between 1900 and 2006, nonviolent campaigns achieve partial or full success at twice the rate of violent campaigns

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/240678278_Why_Civil_Resistance_Works_The_Strategic_Logic_of_Nonviolent_Conflict

[–] jatone@lemmy.dbzer0.com 77 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (2 children)

Here, I opened the book (research paper) for you. and look! violence was involved in the successful outcomes!

especially in light of the enduring violent insurgencies occurring in some of the same countries—begs systematic investigation.

In many cases, both nonviolent and violent campaigns exist simultaneously among different competing groups.

you can't isolate the non-violent campaigns from the violent campaigns in such an analysis, they're part of the same environment.

I'll also note that the research paper doesnt clearly identify how they generated their numbers. the underlying dataset they used is enitrely absent. so we can't make any inferences on how well they actually isolated and calculated their values.

in short: doesnt show its work.

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[–] Bad@jlai.lu 39 points 5 days ago

Sure, and where does diversity of tactics rank?

It's rarely one or the other, eg. Suffragettes demonstrations were made much more threatening by the bombing campaigns that were happening in parallel, Gandhi was made much more threatening by the HSRA campaigns, MLK wouldn't have achieved jack without urban uprisings and the black panthers turning up the pressure in the background, etc.

[–] orca@orcas.enjoying.yachts 24 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

We’re rapidly heading towards an inflection point where no amount of town halls, lawsuits, etc will fully halt the wave of destruction. So while these resistance campaigns are needed and should continue, how long are they going to work within the part of the timeline where democracy and all of the mechanisms have been fully eroded, reversed, and proven to be placebos?

I still find the meme funny, even if this is all far more nuanced. Some examples:

  • A lot of cities are rejecting and shutting down Flock cameras, but in some cases the cameras quietly returned after the uproar died down. They simply waited for people to forget. At what point does it become justifiable to either cover all of the lenses or destroy them altogether?
  • Similar with data centers. The billionaires are going to keep pushing them through, and in one case I saw recently, a town’s leadership even overturned votes against data centers, which was a clear-as-day example of democratic erosion. What good is democracy if it can be arbitrarily overridden? At which point is it justifiable to try and destroy a datacenter’s functionality in order to preserve life, especially when future generations are at stake?

I think eventually we’re going to need a combination of both, but it needs to be lead with structure and intelligence. Billionaires are going to continue to erode and ignore democracy, while a bunch of city officials will continue to fold to the almighty buck, similar to how AIPAC has turned tons of politicians into useless genocidal drones. We’re going to be pushed into a corner where we can either fight back with everything we have access to, or we can keep pulling on levers they’ve systematically destroyed in order to nullify our democratic power. It could be 5, 10, 20 years from now. We don’t know when but authoritarianism—especially now in such unknown times—makes it inevitable.

The TL;DR here is that we need to clearly define what counts as violence. Destroying Flock cameras and hindering data centers is in the same bucket and it’s self-defense, but it’s not violence in the sense that we think about it. If someone automatically thinks that “violence” means “overthrowing the government,” they’re willfully (or maybe not; probably a good time to educate and share knowledge with fellow working class folks) ignorant to a whole bunch of smaller, more focused acts.

[–] defaultusername@lemmy.dbzer0.com 17 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Other examples:

  • Chat Control in the EU (passed the parliament after numerous failed attempts even though a majority voted against it)
  • The SAVE Act in the US (passed the House after numerous failed attempts through an unrelated "must-pass" budget bill)
  • Canada's Bill C-22 (hasn't passed yet, but the mass surveillance apparatus wants to push it through)
  • Not putting Trump and his co-conspirators in prison after the January 6th violent coup attempt
  • Not prosecuting anyone from the Panama Papers (which seems to have been almost entirely forgotten in the public view)
  • Not prosecuting or arresting any of the Epstein criminals in the US

And those are just very recent examples.

[–] orca@orcas.enjoying.yachts 11 points 5 days ago (4 children)

I appreciate you expanding on examples. All of this paints a clear picture, and even Peter Thiel has said the quiet part out loud: the ruling class see democracy as a problem because it prevents them from owning everything and keeping us as wage slaves.

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[–] Taleya@aussie.zone 27 points 5 days ago

Peace is only an option when the social contract is maintained.

When power structures violate it or make sure you're excluded from it, it's time for bricks

[–] schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 32 points 5 days ago (2 children)

Workshop: arguments for keeping the fourth panel? I feel like ending on #3 is a lot stronger.

[–] tyranny@crazypeople.online 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

i like the fourth pabel. it shows someone loudly proclaiming the status-quo establishment line, being shown to be embarassingly, catastrophically wrong, and rather than changing their ways, their worldview, or owning up to their mistake, they change subject, deflect, and get defensive. i think that's a well-observed comic panel

[–] schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Oh, yes, panel #4 is definitely true and I do enjoy looking at that guy freaking out; I just think it's making a second point (how claims are defended in the contradiction to the evidence) at the expense of the first point (that this claim is in contradiction to the evidence).

You can make both points, of course, but the last one is the one more likely to be remembered.

[–] tyranny@crazypeople.online 1 points 1 day ago

great point, very thoughtful response

[–] Bad@jlai.lu 23 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (2 children)

I think you're right, much better that way.

Thanks, useful advice on writing/pacing is rare.

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[–] systemglitch@lemmy.world 10 points 4 days ago (1 children)

So, you guys going to take out your child rapist leader now?

No, because Americans are actual pussies.

[–] Bad@jlai.lu 18 points 4 days ago
[–] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 21 points 5 days ago (2 children)

You want your rights?

You have to be willing to throw bricks.

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[–] schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 23 points 5 days ago (3 children)

The real reason MLK Jr is posthumously a hero.

[–] Bad@jlai.lu 14 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

I too would have an easier time achieving major changes through non violent means if I had my jojo stand Malcom X standing menacingly out of sight behind me at all times threatening more violence and more uprisings if my peaceful demands were not met.

[–] Smif_N_Lenin@piefed.social 8 points 5 days ago

Malcolm X posed as MLK j(oesta)r's stand is an amazing image lmao

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[–] Zephyr@sh.itjust.works 15 points 5 days ago (16 children)

It depends at what stage of oppression we are in. There's a point for both a soft touch and for violence, wisdom is knowing what to do and when to do it.

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[–] Lushed_Lungfish@lemmy.ca 8 points 4 days ago
[–] A_Chilean_Cyborg@feddit.cl 13 points 5 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (4 children)

Pinochet.

That's the best example, he was defeated by people basically singing and dancing and telling him NO In the polls.

As horrible the dictatorship was, I love deeply and profoundly the wholesomeness of how that monster was brought down, I always like to listen at the NO's campaign when I feel sad or depressed because it just gives me so much hope and joy.

[–] Lumisal@lemmy.world 16 points 5 days ago (2 children)

That also relied on the military NOT pulling a Tianemen Square Massacre.

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[–] Folstar@lemmus.org 6 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Yes, we were trained how to protest wrong on purpose. Ask any product of the public school system about protest and they'll either look at you confused or start babbling on about the most PG version of MLK and/or Gandhi imaginable. Nonviolence only works when it is understood by all parties to be the alternative. Many forms of effective protest have been outlawed and the owners, in a masterstroke, turned much of society's valid anger (along with a great deal of less-than-valid anger) into self oppression with the MAGA movement and similar movements in other countries.

tldr; we're too stupid to save

[–] Bad@jlai.lu 4 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Ask any product of the public school system about protest and they’ll [...] start babbling on about the most PG version of MLK and/or Gandhi imaginable

Case in point

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[–] HerbGrower@slrpnk.net 6 points 4 days ago

It doesn't have to by killing people violence though. But just going on a parade isn't doing anything on it's own.

It could work to show how much support a movement has, but you need something to follow up if demands are not met and you actually want something to change.

A strike or blockade isn't violent. Non violent also doesn't mean legal. See how many non violent terrorist pensioners the UK is locking up.

[–] clifmo@programming.dev 14 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Prisoners dilemma. Turn the other cheek all but guarantees oppression. Cooperation, and tit-for-tat (swift rebuke + forgiveness) wins

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[–] Abyssian@lemmy.world 13 points 5 days ago

"The people in charge insist that rising up physically against the people in charge is always wrong, and so they've made rules against doing that, or suggesting it online, or making any sort of plans to do it. As always, the folk with all the money and power have all of our best interests in mind."

[–] BillyClark@piefed.social 12 points 5 days ago (13 children)

I don't want to say about the frequency or which way is more effective, but there have been nonviolent revolutions. Wikipedia even has a page about it. It took me only a few seconds of searching to find it.

So, the comic author is mocking people who make conclusions without actually looking at the data, and meanwhile, they seem to have written the comic making the opposite conclusion ironically without actually looking at the data, either.

It would be so nice if things were always one way or always another way, and people love to assume that their common sense and existing knowledge will be enough to make conclusions, but the comic is right in that regard. If you tell other people your conclusions but you haven't done the research, you really do open yourself up to looking foolish.... Not that it seems like most people care about that these days.

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[–] Bluedragon012@lemmy.world 5 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

The trolls are heavy with this post. "Americans are cowards." "Pick up a gun and fight."

While I see thier points in relation to this post, they rarely look at America tactically. If I wanted to do a violance, I'd need to know the location of my targets, so I look them up, turns out they move from town to town state to state for mettings and things. Now that I know, my options is to go rogue and independent or gather a group. Too many are tired and exsuasted trying to survive. Many are afraid to loose thier job. Many are afraid to loose thier home... So all that's left is lone actors. I personally have a good reason why I'm not attacking, I have a disease that makes doing any significant travel impossible. Once Americans have a garuentee that violance will give them what they want, then, and only then will violence occur. For all our bravado, we are a risk adverse people, surprisingly.

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