this post was submitted on 22 Jul 2026
44 points (70.0% liked)
Memes
56404 readers
868 users here now
Rules:
- Be civil and nice.
- Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
founded 7 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Dismantling statehood, including the orgs that keep Cuba alive like the Cuban revolutionary armed forces, is exactly what the US wants them to do. Your proposals are the exact same as the US, their primary enemies who want to see them fall. Not dodging the state-department anarchist label very well.
Must be very important to Cuba to have the support of western anarchists.
No it's not.
wants far more than merely dismantling the centralized state. 
wants total, complete, permanent submission, to rape the Cubans for their wealth, perpetual enslavement and genocide. I advocate decentralization so that the Cuban people have the best chance of defending themselves from these exact US demands. And I absolutely do not want Cuba to disarm at all; I want to see them stay armed and able to defend themselves against the 
oppressors. But that doesn't mean I have to turn a blind eye to all the other forms of domination and non-horizontalness that the Cuban state, as a state, allows to develop.
... Are you insinuating I shouldn't support liberation for the Cuban people from
imperialism, uncritically for the people of Cuba and critically for the state that lords over them? Like why are you trying to make an enemy to the Cuban people out of me? Seems like a silly move on your part.
Not capitulating to your bullshit-ass campist framing. Thought you fucking knew better.
Anarchism has had zero historical successes, and the 20th century showed that only national liberation struggles backed by proletarian states had any success at defeating capitalist empires.
The USSR, Cuba, China, Vietnam, all defeated fascist / capitalist states not via dismantling or "decentralizing" power, but through centralizing it in the hands of workers capturing and holding state power. They all explicitly dismissed anarchism as being worthless for the uplifting of their people, and many times had to fight against anarchists who sided with the reactionaries, or advocated dismantling worker-power.
The historical ignorance and arrogance of western anarchists is truly astounding. Name me a single historical success of anarchism in defeating capitalist-imperialism. The USSR defeated nazi germany, Cuba defeated the US. How many batallions did the anarchists field in those struggles that were some of the most important events in the 20th century?
Yeah I'm just not interested in relitigating the anarchism vs. Marxism debate with you. If you're seriously interested, check An Anarchist FAQ or consult our literature instead. This debate is over a hundred years old, and neither of us are smart or creative enough to come up with a truly novel argument that hasn't been said a thousand times before.
The point I wanted to relitigate is the ridiculous "your proposals are the same as the US" framing, which you didn't respond to basically at all, because you know it's bullshit. Absolutely, there are self-styled anarchists in the West who tow State Department narratives. Same with self-styled state socialists from the West (e.g. Socialist Workers' Party in
are fucking Zionists, Platner/AOC/Sanders enjoyers, the entire Twitter left), because liberalism is the monoculture in the West, and it is something Westerners (like myself) of any political persuasion must spend a lifetime unlearning. It's a problem with Westerners, not necessarily anarchists. You're being obnoxious and unhelpful when you reactively assume that every anarchist, that anarchism itself, is in line with 
interests.
If you wanna yell at me for being an annoying Westerner I'll eat that, but to then cast all anarchists into that bucket is ridiculous.