this post was submitted on 27 Jul 2026
757 points (97.4% liked)
linuxmemes
32239 readers
666 users here now
Hint: :q!
Sister communities:
Community rules (click to expand)
1. Follow the site-wide rules
- Instance-wide TOS: https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/
- Lemmy code of conduct: https://join-lemmy.org/docs/code_of_conduct.html
2. Be civil
- Understand the difference between a joke and an insult.
- Do not harrass or attack users for any reason. This includes using blanket terms, like "every user of thing".
- Don't get baited into back-and-forth insults. We are not animals.
- Leave remarks of "peasantry" to the PCMR community. If you dislike an OS/service/application, attack the thing you dislike, not the individuals who use it. Some people may not have a choice.
- Bigotry of any kind will not be tolerated. This is an LGBTQ+-friendly community -- if that is a problem for you, you should leave.
3. Post Linux-related content
- Including Unix and BSD.
- Non-Linux content is acceptable as long as it makes a reference to Linux. For example, the poorly made mockery of
sudoin Windows. - No porn, no politics, no trolling or ragebaiting.
- Don't come looking for advice, this is not the right community.
4. No recent reposts
- Everybody uses Arch btw, can't quit Vim, <loves / tolerates / hates> systemd, and wants to interject for a moment. You can stop now.
5. 🇬🇧 Language/язык/Sprache
- This is primarily an English-speaking community. 🇬🇧🇦🇺🇺🇸
- Comments written in other languages are allowed.
- The substance of a post should be comprehensible for people who only speak English.
- Titles and post bodies written in other languages will be allowed, but only as long as the above rule is observed.
6. (NEW!) Regarding public figures
We all have our opinions, and certain public figures can be divisive. Keep in mind that this is a community for memes and light-hearted fun, not for airing grievances or leveling accusations. - Keep discussions polite and free of disparagement.
- We are never in possession of all of the facts. Defamatory comments will not be tolerated.
- Discussions that get too heated will be locked and offending comments removed.
Please report posts and comments that break these rules!
Important: never execute code or follow advice that you don't understand or can't verify, especially here. The word of the day is credibility. This is a meme community -- even the most helpful comments might just be shitposts that can damage your system. Be aware, be smart, don't remove France.
founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
From The Unix Hater's Handbook
(I like Linux, but it's not all sunshine and rainbows)
That head/tail thing is kind of a goofy argument. For one thing they aren't duals;
tailis naturally more complex because the end of a file often changes and the application can optionally keep showing you the new output. Also, the fact that they're separate applications in the first place is arguably better than the a one-application approach, which would always require a command line switch to select between outputting the start or end of a file. And finally, while I guess this could vary between implementations ofheadandtail, mine has identical switches for all the common options.I initially agreed with your take there but I actually think they're a great argument for their point.
headandtailare the exact same abstraction. Their implementations will be quite different, but they both serve "provided this data, give me these lines". Consider instead that these are simply operations on arrays and actually they map perfectly to Python slices:data[:10]anddata[-10:]. This abstraction mapping also shows that, imo, the tool should providedata[n:m]and it would still be entirely consistent with the Unix philosophy. In fact, this tool exists in the Unix toolkit:sed -n n,mp. Three tools then are currently required for the simple concept of "slice lines". I also think it's a bit of a mess. You could replaceheadwithsedfairly easily:sed -n '1,10p'but nottail(it is possible, but quite slow and very opaque)As an aside I actually found this quite frustrating myself because I don't like reaching for
sedin then:mcase (I always forget and end up pipingheadtotail) and ended up writing my own tool for essentially this style of slicing input, also replacing probably my least favorite use of my least favorite Unix tool,dd, to slice arbitrary byte sequences. The tool doesn't feel overloaded and I use it quite often.(I'm sure many people have written this same tool. There is probably a widely known open source option that I've just never come across)
They could have been two commands that call a single parent command with different options. For example, imagine if
cathad an option-Nto restrict the number of lines that was printed, and also an option-tto start from the end.headwould just proxy tocat -Nand tail would proxy tocat -N -t. Combining the three into a single implementation reduces total LoC and opportunity for bugs. Also reduces total maintenance burden.I believe
busyboxis like this actually - a ton of Unix commands in a single package. It's used by Alpine Linux, a tiny and performance linux distro commonly used by docker containers.Busybox is literally just a bundle. That's its whole purpose. It doesn't reimplement anything.
Some quick research says that it is indeed a re-implementation. The first line of the wikipedia, says:
You can download the source code yourself to verify. And if you've actually used Alpine Linux before you would have also noticed that the commands provided by busybox have only a subset of the options provided by their GNU coreutils counterparts.
Please do your research before so confidently correcting other people.
The head and tail programs also do completely different things. What differences in options do they have?
Really completely different? Do they not print first / last lines of text from a file into the terminal?
The way they do it is fundamentally different. Head just reads until number of newlines is the target number. Tail has to first read the entire file and keep a buffer of the file and/or offsets for each line ending to determine what the last 10 (or so) lines are.
This idiot (Gabriel) probably thinks exclusively in the real world paper line analog.
I also just looked at each program's command line options and they're identical. Less things only Tail can do (because they're fundamentally different operations)
Typical of Internet discourse to just immediately brand someone you disagree with an idiot... That "idiot" is one of the designers of common lisp, among other things. You're allowed to disagree with a smart person too you know
OK. Designers of programming languages can be idiots.
Lisp is a bad language IMO. Way too mathy. Nobody programs like that anymore for a reason.
Programming language is a tool. Do you think there're no more tasks left where "mathy" programming language would be preferable?
"This program sucks because it doesn't come with the world's most confusing GUI and doesn't do a trillion things"
If you ask this person what "technically inferior" actually means you'd probably get a different answer every day.
But that's not what either of the guys complained about
Yea what a hot take that was, critiquing words that were never there and then calling the person an idiot.
GUI certainly has its place.
Yes and so do simple CLI tools that work. Head and Tail are about the worst examples because they work very well and also do very different things.