this post was submitted on 19 Aug 2026
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America has only ever been about the freedom of the wealthy. They're just as American as everything else we've ever put out.
to be more accurate the freedom was for the landownering white men, not specifically the wealthy
Freedom of the wealthy and the racist. It's how this kkkountry began: through conquest by the rich and racist.
Americans song of freedom was finished in 1776. A new verse is constantly being written
what an absolute load of horseshit. "song of freedom" tell that to the tens of millions of descendents of slaves in this country. tell that to the indigenous peoples who had to be 'removed' (genocided) out of the way. tell it to the people we 'freedomed' for oil last week. it could only unironically be stated by someone who enjoyed the luxury of privilege their entire life
Their fights against oppression is part of that song. That's the point. From Fredrick Douglass, John Brown, W.E.B. Du Bois, Tecumseh, Sitting Bull, Geronimo, Malcom X, MLK, Harvey Milk, and Rue Paul. From the suffergetes, the jayhawkers, the DSA, the IWW, AIM, the water protectors at DAPL and other places and many many more.
Too many have died from bastards trying to claim America in their name, but we keep fighting too and keeping making them history too. The genocide failed, us natives are still here.
Trust me we play the flag song at the powows because brave Americans fought against Nazis and again helped make them history.
So no I don't need to inform anyone, those are the people that told me.
you are pointing at the exception and stating it as the rule. for every freedom fighter you are very well justified in lauding, how many more were raped, lynched, disappeared, burned alive? how many never had a chance to live in the first place because of eugenics? and see where those movements are today. see the poverty and desperation of the black community after mlk and malcolm x. see the dissolution of the queer movement into kitschy consumerism after milk. see tradwives dominate young peoples' ideas of what feminism is. the civil rights movement, gay pride, feminism were not a fulfillment of the founder's original incomplete promise. they were a proud defiance of it. what natives? the dissolute, overwhelmingly alcoholic and gambling-addicted defeated mass of disparate peoples forced onto desert scrublands and deprived of all economic power? The genocide succeeded. The palestinians being genocided right now? they'll still have been genocided tomorrow if the genocide miraculously stops today. truly you are desperately ignorant. did the nazis not do a genocide in ww2 because some of their victims survived or escaped the camps?
the founding daddies very very much intended a slave republic of white male landed christian elites, which is why they wrote the constitution in such a way as to concentrate power in a single executive and set up lifetime supreme court justices that were not accountable to the people and why the congress is made up of an extra, antidemocratic senate whose purpose and effect is to impede the exact kind of progress we both agree is what america ought to be. the difference between us right now is that you're talking about a song of freedom like a fucking disney movie while a pedofascist rules totally unchecked as defacto king. whats next, will you tell me the performative no king protests are why donald "the john" trump isnt actually a king?
straight up, if you're defending this system still at this point in 2026, you're part of the problem. you do not get to simply declare the problem solved because the moral arc bends towards justice. it does not bend on its own and it is currently bending the other way.
fruity, i got no problem with you personally, but your take is seriously pig ignorant. do better.
edit: im leaving this up because most of what i said was true in my opinion, but changing my own vote to down because i was way too heated.
Feminism is definitely in defiance of the founding fathers ideals, antislavery and integration of native Americans definitely were and the fucked up things they let or supported against those ideals were criticized and fought against even then. Not that it matters they can suck, MLK and John Brown never talked about defended LGBTQ rights from what I recall either but that isn't what they fought for.
Listen we have to fight against the systems of oppression for sure, but imho the reason why our movement isn't as big as it needs because that's all people do now, and fighting only against sucks. It's not just ok, but it's probably a fucking necessity to fight for something to.
When we do, and we have to, stop the genocide in Palestine are you going to write them off too as the "dissolute, overwhelmingly alcoholic and gambling-addicted defeated mass of disparate peoples" or whatever bullshit racist stereotypes bigots come up with next. Honestly fuck off with that raciest bullshit.
in my view, israel is the one writing them off as such. i see myself as trying to look at the state of the world as clearly as I can, which involves yes looking clearly at the actual state of people and not what i wish they would be. to the specific challenge, if israel leaves them a dissolute, defeated mass (i frankly doubt they'll turn to alcohol or gambling, though disparate with the peoples of lebanon and syria seems much more likely), yes i'll observe that fact plainly and without regard to politeness. i dont agree that it is racist to observe that the remaining indigenous peoples of america disproportionately live in abject poverty and suffer extremely disproportionately from alcoholism and gambling addiction, among many other poverty- and desperation-related population effects. i think its racist to pretend otherwise, actually. edit: and further evidence of your ignorance
edit: i checked my figures, and i thank you for encouraging me to do so. i had to downgrade my statements from "overwhelmingly" to "disproportionately." still, 2x more likely to live in poverty (<23k/y) and 4x more likely to die from alcohol-related illnesses compared to the general population is an undeniable statistic. i dont say its determinitive, or that their genetic makeup causes it, i say its a statistical fact, and you can trace its roots to their ancestor's genocide.
I get that more. I'm by no means suggesting rose colored glasses or worse plain ignorance. We do have acknowledge problems and meet the world where it is at. I am just highly opposed to giving up and not take back our symbols and meaning or to throwaway what the people who have fought the good fight because assholes have tried to make it there own too.
We can acknowledge the real harm alcoholism and it's leading cause of generational trauma and continued government restrictions on the res but it is not all we are by any stretch of the imagination. In fact the only reason why it can be a problem is because we are still here, and have the full human spirit with us still. That spirit is also why we are still fighting for each other and why it's worth it. Just like those that came before for those that have still yet to walk with us.
No doubt Israel and too many US politicians are to blame, but oppression is never stopped by the oppressor its up to us currently with privilege and good consciousness fight with the oppressed..
hey bud. im looking over my comments yesterday and i came in way too hot. im realizing i missed my happy pills that morning. while i agree with pretty much everything i said (i could have absolutely been more precise in my specific racial claims for instance- i painted with an over broad brush and i think it might be fair to say i was externalizing some latent racism, fair callout), i should have said it more gently and kindly. you deserved better. the anger i had, while perfectly valid, was extremely misplaced.
and im looking back over your comments and i think, we're not actually disagreeing for the most part. its perfectly compatible with my views to observe that the resistance movement in america is very much a part of the american culture. i dont think we actually seriously disagree, now i've had a chance to sleep on it. and come to think of it, by rejecting the premise of the song of freedom (while trite and reductive), i am in fact dismissing the real efforts by the named champions among others.
i think i just feel defeated. i look at all the lawlessness around me and feel hopeless. pedofascists control the fed, thugs control my state, my local council is corrupt and the police collect a paycheck for sitting in their cars talking to each other for hours in the mcdonalds parking lot, and i know good and goddamn well there's crimes going on. its all going to shit and i cant help but feel totally defeated. but i shouldnt have taken that out on you, my ally. its amazing how i can see (i think) pretty clearly, but my emotions fuck up my ability to cope with the information effectively.