this post was submitted on 24 Nov 2023
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After getting back from Thailand I realized America is very different in some regards. There are a lot of countries you can move to and become a citizen but the people wont ever see you are truly one of them. For example, Thailand, Japan, Korea, Sweden, Norway are all great places to live but you wont really become “one of them”. In America and Canada if you are a citizen you are seen as one of us waaaaay more so than almost anywhere in the world, this makes us stop at “im american” or “im canadian” because we accept it but other places just see things differently culturally l.
Exactly. There are people born and raised in Japan, who were not ethnically Japanese and in spite of growing up there, speaking the language, etc. were never accepted as Japanese.
In Thailand there is a certain level of “Thainess” one needs to possess to be accepted even as a local and an ethnic classism that favors the Thai-Chinese.
I never knew this, thank you!
This is really true. I’ve always been fascinated by Japan and Japanese culture.
I was admittedly surprised when I learned less that fewer than 20% of Japanese passports and that a Cambodian childhood friend who moved there 15 years ago, learned Japanese, works for a Japanese company, said he never felt like a part of society because he wasn’t ethnically Japanese.
Japanese overall are some of the kindest, most polite people you’ll encounter. But there’s still a great divide between being ethnically Japanese and not being ethnically Japanese.
I moved to the US as a child, and as soon as people hear my accent when I travel overseas, many will say “you sound American.” I also feel more American than Cambodian at this point in my life.
Less than 20% of Japanese ‘have’ passports? Is that what you meant?
Oops, yeah
Actually I'd argue it's even deeper than that. Overseas Japanese are seen as outsiders too and even kids who spent significant time overseas are sometimes treated differently.
Yeah, I’ve heard this
Most people just say Polite.
It's not as much a warm kindness, as much as a polite presentation.
Absolutely. There's a politeness you feel when out and about in public in Japan, but Japanese people can actually act pretty coldly to you as a foreign tourist.
I have a friend who is German and lives in Basel, Switzerland (German speaking part of Switzerland) but will never be fully accepted because he didn't grow up there. Talk about insular.
Yup this is why I always tell people. If you want to migrate move to the US. I have a friend who are Asian but became German. The Germans never see him as one of them. He said he will always an outsider.
He didn't became german, he got german citizenship.
German is a nationality and an ethnicity that goes back thousands of years. You don't magically become a german because you live there 7 years.
A friend of mine's grandparents immigrated to Germany in the 50s. We both grew up in the same village, both speak German natively, both went to the same school. Still he is considered Turkish and I am German.
How exactly is thousand years of history important for my personal life? I don't have memories of bashing in roman heads in Teutoburg, chasing Latvians out of newly conquered Teuton land or putting Jews into gas chambers. I learned about all of these in school, just as my friend. Why me may or may not having ancestors who may or may not have done that is now important to be considered part of the in-group is not something I will ever understand.
Because he is turkish.
Turks in germany are not germans, they vote for Erdogan in the elections and they keep their citizenship.
They have turkish names, they name their children turkish names, they follow a turkish religion, when they gather at home they eat turkish food and they often speak with each other in turkish.
They're turks.
I know Germany is stereotypically that country with strict rules for everything, but you will be happy to learn that it does not actually police its citizens about what they can eat and how they can communicate.
I do enjoy Turkish food a lot as well, though Korean food is probably still my favorite. :)
You don't seem to like Turkish people at all.
Turks in Turkey or visitors, tourist and students from Turkey, they're great.
Turks who want to live in Europe, but not become europeans, who want to change our countries into Turkey? No, they should go back to Turkey.
So you believe that Turkish people shouldn't live in Germany at all, and there's no path to assimilation.
The friend sounds assimilated, but you already seem to know who they voted for and exactly their character, and you don't tolerate it at all. They aren't German and should leave, even though they were born and raised in Germany.
It's very easy to assimilate yourself. Marry a german, have german children, give them german names and baptize them.
If you marry another turk, give turk names and follow a turk religion and continue to live as a turk, then you're a turk, living in germany.
Thank you for enlightening me about this stuff. I am actually not baptized, and I follow neither the middle eastern religion that dominated Germany the last 1000 years nor one of the Teutonic ones that existed before. Oh no. And I have the most popular name for German boys in the 90s, but I just googled it and it turns out it's origin is hebrew...Oh no. And I have to admit I do not like Sauerkraut much..Oh no, my whole identity is disappearing.
No, honestly, do you know how many people in my life have given a fuck about me being religious? It's 0.
And the same way, it's not going to matter if a turkish-looking person does all the things you want. They are still going to be judged and stereotyped by how they look, nothing else.
I mean, you yourself already knew everything about my friend from his culinary habits to political views, all without asking him a single question. It's like magic, right?
My kids will probably face the same problems if they don't primarily inherit my features because my SO isn't white. Then, even the “1000 years of history” that I will give them with my magical blood will matter for many people.
Let me tell you something, I don't go around seeing some brown person and think "foreigner", I think "fellow human in Denmark".
If they give me just any small inclination that they identify as danish, then I will view them as danish.
If on the other hand they speak a ghetto-arabic language with each other and they dress in ways that no or few danes do and if they behave in a threathening manner and if by their behaviour they make it very clear they are in opposition to what I consider Denmark, then I'll take them on it and consider them as foreign.
Ah, my apologies then, with you being able to judge so quickly that Rustykilo's and my friend aren't German I had wrongfully assumed you were basing that on something else. Of course, I should have known that you were able to meet them before and judge their clothing style as not sufficient, especially since we Germans are internationally famous for being well-dressed. :P
I do have to point out, though, that while I don't know much about Denmark, there is actually no mandatory dress code in Germany. Quite the opposite actually, if anything there are laws preventing a government from enforcing such. So judging their Germaness on their clothes would be if anything very Ungerman.
But that's good if people aren't judged by their ethnicity in Denmark, you guys are probably a lot more liberal than us then. Because if you ask any 'non-white' German here about their experiences, many will tell you that's not what happens here, no matter when they or their ancestors immigrated here or how 'well-behaved' they are.
So you agree Elon Musk is the world's most successful African-American?
Sure? Relevant why?
The dude is obviously disliked by many people for various of reasons and even then I have never seen anyone say: "Well, he isn't real American, he isn't one of us, he is just a migrant and his kids also will never be American because they don't have our hundreds years of history through our magical blood". Because Americans don't really do that.
Maybe you are referencing someone who said that, and I missed it, but the issue with picking a celebrity is that you will find just about everything being said about them.
Still, for an average white dude like you and me, it would be no problem to migrate to the US and be considered American after we get citizenship and our kids who are born there would definitely have no problem being considered American.
That's kind of what the whole thread is about.
Yes and that's why so much inbreeding and disabilities... You are a very small country, America on the other hand is all immigrants so.. No issue there at all....
There's absolutely no inbreeding in Denmark. We're one of the most outbred countries in the world. We stopped marrying cousins 600 years ago.
Turkey on the other hand.
You'll be downvoted for the truth. I'm an immigrant and I can totally understand what you're saying
This mentality is why everyone wants to move to America and America leads the world in innovation.
Good luck keeping America together once it is no longer a majority white country. It will break apart.
Rome did the same. Look into the later stage emperors and how the army got increasingly multicultural until basically the army was made up of germanics who then decided, hey, who are we protecting.
Lol, multiculturalism ruins societies? Better tell those idiot backwards Singaporeans and their nasty multicultural society.
Cool, now let me execute weed dealers in America too. You better not complain or that's hypocritical
Singapore is majority han-chinese with a miniscule muslim population.
It's also a defacto dictatorship.
Then don't complain about the school shootings and white nationalists and everything else that comes with a low trust society, since you're taking a very nationalistic view there already
The school shootings and white nationalism are not because they're more open to immigrants, otherwise Canada would be a failed state at this point and Toronto would have a homicide rate that puts Central America to shame.
Another reason why America is an amazing country! So many amazing countries in the world that I have had the pleasure of visiting, and I’m always happy to call America my home. We may be kinda fucked, but hey aren’t we all a little?
Ya we don’t get enough credit for how open we are. People hate that we aren’t perfect but it’s pretty good
In this regard Brazil is sort of like the US' mirror in South America.
I was happy to see this.
Yo fr that really blew my mind when I finally got out and visited
I'm not gonna generalize but I think this is more widespread in South America than you might think since pretty much all countries in the region abide by Jus Soli. Our countries are all relatively young and immigration has been such a strong driver of our culture that even defining what makes someone (e.g.) Uruguayan.
We had an absurd amount of immigration waves in Venezuela throughout the 20th Century and it'd never cross our mind to go "oh yeah this guy is Polish-Venezuelan," he'd just be Venezuelan.
I haven't been to other South American countries, so I can only speak with certainty about my country but I'm not arrogant enough to think we're the only ones like this. From watching their football broadcasts and talking about their players of less common ethnicities (e.g. Armenian) I have a feeling Argentina is similar in that way.
It's not just about Jus Soli, but also the sheer amount of African slaves Brazil accepted. This creates a wide racial diversity, alongside the large and prominent Japanese and Lebanese populations, that ensures that Brazilians can really look like any human on Earth. Just like the US.
Honestly if you can speak English without an “accent”, we will automatically assume and consider you as one of us. This is subconsciously true even if we know you aren’t American or Canadian.
Where can they do that? Even American English comes with different flavors.
Most of the country (using the general American accent that's most represented through popular media).
This is the 5 Eyes - all of them
What you are saying is that a person of a different race will stand up more in a homogeneous country. That seems pretty logic to me, without putting racism into it.
I live in South East Asia, alternating between Indonesia and Vietnam, often in remote locations away from touristic spots. As a 6’4” white guy I tend to attract a lot of unwanted attention, but I never feel it is because of racism.
I wonder if this has to do with old vs new world. North Americans don’t have the history like those in European and Asian countries.
So many are immigrants to the US/Canada that it’s accepted that many of us look different. Old world countries on the other hand, more or less look the same. Perhaps through centuries of closed or xenophobic immigration policies.