this post was submitted on 28 Nov 2023
184 points (88.0% liked)
Technology
59446 readers
4722 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related content.
- Be excellent to each another!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
Approved Bots
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Engineer in the automotive industry here. Vehicles need a ton of certification by tons of different governments and face very strict regulation.
Just a battery alone is going to be subject to lots of EMC emissions and interference tests. Then you have the capability to survive crashes, fail operational requirements, how does the battery fail (does it explode or just disconnect itself?), etc. etc. These are all dependent on the chassis the battery is in, so they can't just swap it into an existing chassis and say "Oh it worked with battery A, it'll work with battery B." Unfortunately the requirements are just way too strict for that.
Additionally I can't go into details but the sentiment others are echoing of "If it's coming in 2028 they should have a functioning prototype" are true in my experience. It takes several years to design and release a car, and when you're introducing a new battery tech or drive train or similar changes it takes even longer.
Humor me. It’s possible with the batteries we already use, why would this be different? I can go get a li-ion battery to replace a battery in any existing ICE vehicle.
Different battery chemistries do not behave identically in terms of failure modes, EMC emissions and interference response, and tons of other things. Just swapping one battery for another has a huge effect even before you consider auxiliary components like charging circuitry.
My assumptions as to why you can just drop in an aftermarket battery and crate motor into an existing ICE vehicle (also, far from any vehicle, it is a relatively niche product) are that A. The batteries are way smaller and aren't structural to the frame the way they are in BEV-first designs (but this is how we get good range out of them). B. The companies selling these probably aren't held to the same emissions standards that an automaker is.
Again, these are assumptions, I don't work in conversions but in BEV designs primarily. I know there's a ton of red tape for us to even think about changing battery chemistry, and we 100% would have to get all new certifications for it.
You misunderstood, if you require all this certification to change battery types. You wouldn’t be able to replace 12v sealed lead acid in an ICE vehicle with li-ion or other types.
It’s already a thing that happens, yes there is hell of other hurdles, but there’s nothing magical about changing battery chemistry type and the vehicle.
12V sealed lead-acid batteries are a standard size and chemistry... They are absolutely not comparable to a BEV battery. The lithium ion 12V batteries are built to the emissions standards and regulations of the 12V lead acid, that's a known quantity and a hell of a lot less energy. BEV batteries contain kwH of energy, they are significantly larger, are a nonstandard size on every single vehicle. Even if Toyota made it the same size and shape, the energy density might be enough to fail EMC regulations (without having to change the size and shape)
I don't know what else to tell you man, I work on electric vehicles for my job. Literally an engineer. You can choose to not believe me but it just isn't anywhere near as simple as you're acting like it is. Just because you think it's like swapping an alkaline AA for a NiZn AA doesn't make it true.
12v sealed acid batteries are not a standard size and chemistry by any stretch of the imagination. Even is sealed lead acid there is dozens of different chemistry and makeups in the batteries. Your ignorance in this is astounding for an engineer. But I also haven’t seen an engineer willing to admit they made a mistake as well….
You’re trying to claim Something isnt possible just because of a little red tape that can easily (in fact it already is dealt with) be met. It’s not a very good argument even. Its already done, yeah the size changes things slightly, but the precedence shows this is entirely capable of being done.
You can tell me what you want, but there is already a very real world example of this being possible. Sorry. Get your head out of your ass for two seconds and think about this.