this post was submitted on 26 Nov 2023
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[–] SCB@lemmy.world -1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (16 children)

So, couple things.

First, and least important (but still important), this article is out of date

In California, 96 percent of workers who would benefit from the proposed minimum wage increase to $15 are over the age of 20, and 58 percent are over the age of 30

This data is not accurate after wage increases

Second, this article has nothing to do with what we're talking about. I have nothing against raising the minimum wage. I think it should be tied to local cost of living and reassessed every 2 years.

What we're talking about is that raising the minimum wage would not provide the price pressure on the labor market you think it will, because there are already more jobs than people and wages are already rising as a result (though slowing, in which case your argument may someday become relevant again).

The market is unlikely to shift away from labor for over a generation, barring some ludicrous advancement in AI and robotics. Our population is shrinking while our economy is growing. That's bad for employers in price-sensitive markets but great for literally all employees (until they get old, but whatcha gonna do).

Raise the minimum wage. Go nuts. It won't affect average wages in any significant way, because not enough people are on the minimum wage.

[–] teuast@lemmy.ca 1 points 11 months ago (10 children)

I appreciate that you want more frequent adjustments to the minimum wage. I am in full agreement. I think it should be assessed on a national level more so than local, because making it piecemeal like that leaves lots of open opportunities for bad actors to exploit it (think gerrymandered congressional maps), but I do appreciate that as far as that goes, we are largely in agreement.

That said, Teter's essay addresses most of the other claims in your comment, with both argumentation and sources. Maybe you should read more of that and try addressing some of her other rebuttals to your points, rather than just ignoring them and repeating yourself endlessly? Then you might at least look a little bit less disingenuous.

[–] SCB@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago (9 children)

I read the article

She does not discuss minimum wage's relevancy in an era of massive wage increases. In 2021, wages weren't growing. Not were they before then.

[–] teuast@lemmy.ca 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

And they still aren't, so why should she discuss that?

[–] SCB@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Wages have absolutely grown quite a lot.

[–] teuast@lemmy.ca 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Top result on Google. https://www.ppic.org/blog/wage-growth-is-struggling-to-keep-up-with-inflation/ Got another "nuh uh" for me, or are you going to make an actual effort this time?

[–] SCB@lemmy.world -1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

This does not imply a lack of wage growth, quite the opposite.

Literally the first sentence

Wage growth has been a bright spot for workers (and perhaps a challenge for business owners), but not when measured against inflation.

Whether or not it's enough wage growth isnt what were discussing. I'd love to see wages rise more. This growth means raising min wage won't do much tho.

[–] teuast@lemmy.ca 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

What's the point of discussing if wages have grown without factoring in inflation? If wages increase, but inflation increases by the same amount, then leaving out the latter when arguing the former seems a little fucking dishonest, no? And of course it didn't occur to you to read past the first sentence to see where she makes that exact same point... or you deliberately ignored it to keep doubling down on the points I've already debunked.

And you've also admitted that there are still workers making the federal minimum wage, so it doesn't seem like this wage growth you think is such a trump card has been benefiting them at all. As I pointed out earlier, a third of the workforce is making less than $15, meaning that all of them would get a pay bump from raising the minimum, not just the ones who are already on the minimum wage. I have made this point multiple times and you still refuse to acknowledge it.

Honestly, you're arguing dishonestly enough that I straight up don't believe you when you say you'd love to see wages rise more.

[–] SCB@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

And you’ve also admitted that there are still workers making the federal minimum wage

You're just retreading the same ground

But yes it's clear you're not interested in examining this discussion in any meaningful way and I agree it should end.

[–] teuast@lemmy.ca 1 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I've been retreading the same ground because your argumentation strategy has just been to double down on your original points while ignoring my rebuttals. Which makes it fucking rich of you to accuse me of "not being interested in examining this discussion in any meaningful way." Imagine what I could achieve with that level of absolute brass balls.

[–] Sparlock@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago

That dude is a troll. What you described is his typical M.O. He never responds to anything that threatens his preconceived and often poorly formed opinions.

Oh and he's a frikkin Nazi in every way except for having a fuck doll with hitler's face on it.

[–] SCB@lemmy.world -1 points 11 months ago

If your rebuttals do not change the discussion there is no need to change the discussion away from them.

You're not interested in engaging in a meaningful way if you aren't willing to engage in the current and likely reality of the discussion.

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