this post was submitted on 11 Dec 2023
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[–] Vodulas@beehaw.org 24 points 11 months ago (31 children)

Amoral at worst. Public transportation shouldn't have a fee at use. Tax the rich, invest in transport

[–] Chozo@kbin.social 4 points 11 months ago (30 children)

Not asking about the morality, asking whether or not the people making this argument on piracy consider jumping the turnstile to be theft, in the most practical sense. Not in an ideal world, but in the real world, would you consider that theft?

A turnstile jumper is also exploiting the products and services produced by offers without paying the cost to use them. Nothing is being "removed" in that situation either.

[–] Unaware7013@kbin.social 8 points 11 months ago (6 children)

Jumping a turnstile and taking a physical, actually scarce resource is not comparable to duplicating a digital, artificially scarce resource.

The train requires ongoing maintenance and can only hold a finite amount of people. Taking the train seat for free takes away something from another person. Downloading media does not use any ongoing resources, and does not take anything away from another consumer.

Comparing the morality of physical goods to digital goods are not really a good comparison specifically because of the artificial scarcity brought on by making something digital to try to make it more expensive doesn't map to the real scarcity of physical goods.

[–] Chozo@kbin.social 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Again, I have to ask: How do you think those digital goods are made in the first place? Somebody labored to create it. They deserve to be paid for it.

Not sure why this is such a hot take.

[–] mkhoury@lemmy.ca 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

How much should they be paid for it? In a situation where the streaming services have a stranglehold on the market and are extracting a big amount in rent-seeking price vs actually paying the people who labored to create it, should we continue to pay and give in to their morally dubious tactics? In this lens, can piracy be considered a form of civil disobedience?

[–] Chozo@kbin.social 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

How much should they be paid for it?

However much they're asking. They put a price tag on it for exactly this question.

In this lens, can piracy be considered a form of civil disobedience?

Not really. Civil disobedience is about refusing to follow a law, not choosing to break a law. There's a difference between the two concepts; one involves going about your day as normal and ignoring laws, and the other is going out of your way to break a law. Piracy is no more a form of civil disobedience than looting a grocery store is.

[–] mkhoury@lemmy.ca 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Ah, that's not my understanding of civil disobedience. I prefer this definition: "civil disobedience is a public, non-violent and conscientious breach of law undertaken with the aim of bringing about a change in laws or government policies" (https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/civil-disobedience/)

I suppose the piracy aspect might not be public enough to count as civil disobedience though, unless you count as public the noticeable cumulative effects of all piracy.

[–] Chozo@kbin.social 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Right, but in this instance you're not damaging the government through these actions. You're damaging private entities. Civil vs criminal.

EDIT: Although, piracy often crosses both civil and criminal statutes in many cases, because copyright law is weird like that.

[–] mkhoury@lemmy.ca 2 points 11 months ago

Agreed, and to me the solution is not "let's hope the companies play nice", but rather to bring in anti-monopoly regulations, like Canada's Bill C-56.

We need to force companies to add interoperability, transparency and fairness imho. Like the ongoing fight to force Apple to allow competing browsers in iOS. Or alternate app stores for Android and iOS.

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