this post was submitted on 13 Dec 2023
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I love how a country is allowed to just get away with killing children and UN workers and doctors and journalists but we condemn countries that do the same thing like Russia. It makes no sense that Israel should get a free pass, all it does is expose a huge double standard
False equivalence.
Russia bombed Kiev for the hell of it, not even pretending there was a military objective. Russia also is conscripting Ukrainians to fight against their fellow countrymen as cannon-fodder on the front line. It is kidnapping children into Russia.
We could go an have a piss-fight between the warcrimes of Russia and the warcrimes of Israel.
The US can be the bad guy in one conflict while be on the good side on another. Imperialism is bad, whether it's Russia or the US doing it.
Also, Hamas are war criminals as well. No good guys fighting there ATM.
The whole point of the article is Biden criticizing Israel for going too far in their mission to eradicate Hamas. He even criticized US for invading Afghanistan.
Bit of a tangent, but I find it insane that the US spent over 2000 billion to fight the war in Afghanistan, but congress is unwilling to authorise giving the Ukrainians 60 billion. A relatively small amount, that means Ukrainians can keep fighting Russia, decreasing the likelihood of American troops ever having to get involved in a war in Europe.
Ah, but from where I sit (a long way from the US), it looks more like a pissing contest between the Republicans to see who can be the most terrible human being in government, than it does look like any sort of actual policy or principal.
It's not about helping Ukraine, or avoiding the mistakes of Afghanistan - it's about trying to make Biden (and/or 'The Dems' in general) look bad, even if that involves civilian deaths.
Are they evil, Russian agents or just absolute clowns? It doesn't really matter, does it. The end result is the same.
I once did the sums to calculate that USA could have afforded a run a gun buyback scheme (like Australia) rather than invade Iraq, you know... to cut down on Americans killing Americans.
I did the sums, and the US would have been able to fund a large moonbase for the next century, mine asteroids AND seriously begin colonising Mars.
But instead of becoming an interplanetary power, the US chose to blow up brown farmers.
Kubrick's 2001, A Space Odyssey vs Dr Strangelove
And accomplished nothing for the people there, within 2 months it was as bad as it ever was before the US came.
But that 2000 billion went directly into the military industrial complex. Ka-ching.
Is the same true for that 60 billion?
He criticizes their war crimes with one hand but with the other hand he gives them billions of dollars to help them commit more.
IDF are the good guys, just like the Ukrainian army is. That doesn't mean that every single individual in either army are angels or that every operation is virtuous, just that their overall intentions are just.
An important question: What would the world look like if these guys won versus if they lost?
Narrator: ...they weren't.
Which is more important, ends or means?
Ends are more important.
I can prove to you it is not.
If my end is to have a million dollars, am I justified in killing whoever I want to get it?
If someone rapes your sister, are you justified in killing their whole family to get to them?
If someone kills your daughter, are you justified in burning down a city in revenge?
Oh, I didn't realize you asked "do ends always justify the means?". My mistake.
I'm positively surprised ur not downvoted to hell for saying that I must say
There are no downvotes on Beehaw.
ohhhh that makes total sense now thanks!
It's true, there are no downvotes on Beehaw. It doesn't accept them or federate them.
However, people from other instances see a downvote button and it registers downvotes - but only from people on their own instance.
@fosforus and @idiocracy are probably looking at those figures and mistaking it for over-all numbers.
Perhaps majority of the people who hate my comments about Israel vs Hamas have already blocked me
that was funny and I thank u for that :D
IMO the only "good guys" fighting there are the civilians "fighting" to survive. Not Hamas and not the IDF. Neither care about the innocent.
If Ukraine had initially launched an attack on Russia and killed 1,200 mainlycivilians, taken 200+ hostages and thrown in a bit of organised gang rape, I doubt Ukraine would be receiving its current level of support, and there may even have been some support for retaliatory action by Russia.
That’s not to say that Israel’s current appalling treatment of Palestinian civilians is justified
Except it wasn't Palestine that attacked, it was a group disassociated with the Palestinian Authority, that Israel itself funds so it can justify the "war" to favor the arms dealers and distract the constituents of the terrible administration they're receiving.
The two conflicts are not even remotely comparable.
That was largely my point.
You have a weird way of getting to it, seeing as you compared the two right out of the door.
Given that I was replying to a message drawing equivalence, you'll see that I was saying that they weren't really equivalent, in that Ukraine hadn't mounted an attack on Russian civilians. Hope that helps.
It’s crazy. On reddit, it’s 90%
Then you go here and it’s again 90%
You are describing r/Worldnews not other Reddit subs.
And Lemmy has been 50-50, with very little actual personal attacking.
Worldnews mods are clearly fascist. They banned me for being skeptical of IDF sources
If it makes you feel any better, I got banned for my first and only comment there (not even a post) which was a link and an explanation of the high credentials of the author. Like this...
https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream
Hersh first gained recognition in 1969 for exposing the My Lai Massacre and its cover-up during the Vietnam War, for which he received the 1970 Pulitzer Prize for International Reporting.
Yeah they are clearly forcing a narrative there.
I wouldn't be surprised if someone from IDF social media team is involved in some way, either as a mod or paying the mods handsomely
I do not visit worldnews. This description fits to both /r/europe and /r/de.
And regarding lemmy, maybe on other instances, but I’m only on beehaw.
Haven't visited those subs.
I might be describing beehaw rather than other Lemmy instances. That was why I joined beehaw, because it promised civility.
As I said, I only know of beehaw as well. No personal attacks, but also nowhere near 50-50 sentinment.
50-50 here
what do u mean 50-50? give me one thread here that isn't anti Israel and with massive upvote/downvote ratio
https://beehaw.org/comment/1864942
Wut? I've not seen a single pro Israel thread here.
https://beehaw.org/comment/1864942
Not moving the goalposts but I meant Lemmy in general, not beehaw, cause no downvotes
But I admit you supplied a link to my request. I stand.partially informed
Ah, so only beehaw prohibits downvotes, not other Lemmy instances. TIL.
I guess even what I showed you may have gone negative if downvotes were allowed. The person I was arguing with wasn't being nasty about it, just incredibly obstinate.
I worry about a return to Nazi style anti-semitism (though I hate Likud) which the polarized discussions are leading us towards. It is arrogant to think it could never happen again.
I don't agree with this characterization at all.
Here in the fediverse there are many people with opinions similar to mine, i.e we are on the side of civillians, not any of the belligerents in this hellscape of war crimes.
No, a simple unistandard. I'll illustrate with a meme.
Russia has the right to self defense.
Do you condemn NATO?
/s