this post was submitted on 18 Dec 2023
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This is why you shouldn’t use cloud services for personal security, because the cloud is just someone else’s computer.
Also, quit putting unnecessary, Internet connected cameras indoors.
I seriously cannot fathom the amount of people that seem to want to put cameras up in their own bedrooms and just let them stream video constantly.
It has nothing to do with any serious home security, and everything to do with mindless consumerism. Hopefully it's a trend that will pass.
In general, cloud services have far better security than DIY systems. All of the hacked systems in this article are home based systems.
This is a known problem with popular brands of security cameras sold in Vietnam, that the default configuration has an admin password of "admin" or "12345" accessible from the public Internet. They're basically sold insecure, and rely on customers to consciously adopt a custom configuration to be secure.
Although, in order to be publicly accessible, one would imagine that they've had to configure their firewall to let outside signals to the devices themselves. Or maybe some kind of ddns setup.
Either way, it doesn't have anything to do with the cloud, and the parent comment is basically right about that.
I'm guessing there are providers in Vietnam offering remote access accounts and apps, the same as 90% of IP security cameras on AliExpress, Amazon, eBay etc. Most of the zero config ones are authenticated with a cloud server 24/7 to enable remote viewing. This being Vietnam specific leads me to believe that the "hackers" are actually a domestic crime org selling compromised hardware; could be as simple as opening the box and obtaining device information (like the serial, MAC, or QR code) before shipping the product.
Even if it were true; less money to be made than from a company, so less interest and investition to hack it.
Where are you pulling this from? These aren't "DIY". DIY is when you roll your own remote network access (e.g. VPN, DDNS, port forwarding, etc) or FOSS software/hardware. I'd trust most DIY systems more than any cloud provider, because most DIY systems would be LAN only or VPN accessible. The QR code authentication mentioned in the article sounds like these are generic IP security cameras of stock firmware, that utilize a cloud server to enable remote viewing over the internet. Even reputable cloud services use the same method to connect or setup individual cams to their cloud.
That doesn't mean the exploits used are of no fault of the user — from the vendors authentication implementation, software, or hardware.
You can't connect home system that is never connected to internet, basically make home server and hook up cameras and don't ever connect that to internet
The problem is cameras like these, the kind that people are putting up inside their own homes, facing their living spaces, their own damn bedrooms, they're sold to people that have this desire to be able to check in with those cameras remotely at any time, without a good reason.
The only reason my mother seems to have crap like this set up is so she can see the dogs when she's not home. They're just sleeping.
Internet connected, living space directed cameras are this bizarre consumer electronics trend that has no legitimate use case for like 90% of the people that rush to use it. Certainly not one that merits the security risks and the privacy invasion that they are inviting on themselves.
Bro, if I find any ingress point onto your network, I can connect to your networked cams.
Little brother downloads a Trojanised pirate copy of a game? I can connect to your cams via your lil bro's computer.
Not patched your stuff and there was a drive-by-download and RCE exploit? I can do it through your computer.
Your firewalls are important but they aren't impenetrable.
Yeah, but you’d pretty much need to target the person so these blanket hacks where a bunch of cameras are exposed aren’t really possible
No I don't. Like the first example above I can simply trojanise an executable, and release it to the public.
Once I'm on your network, the first thing I'm always going to do is see what I'm working with. That means a network and system info sweep. If I'm efficient, I already have a script to do this.
That sweep will reveal the presence of the camera. I might be interested in extortion material or I can sell this to a criminal gang, if I can get it open. I already have the camera's MAC address, so finding the make and model isn't too hard.
Then I might browse to it, see what system software it is running. Then I would try default usernames and passwords (people don't always change them) and see if there are any usable exploits on the software.
If I come across a certain camera type with certain vulnerabilities a lot, making a script to autofuck these cameras is child's play.
Source: am an ethical hacker/ red teamer.
Seperate network that's physically not connected to a network which connects to the internet or cameras with local storage.
You can't hack into the wildlife camera in my backgarden. It doesn't even have wifi, just an SD card.
Of course, that's less useful if you want to check up on your house when you're away.
That's what I've been trying to say, thank you for backing me up
Vlans
not a common feature of home networks
If the compromised machine has access to both vlans, you're still fucked
It’s a feature on mine
That’s why my security has multiple layers
It isn't a common feature on ISP provided routers, which is what most people use. Some ISPs (example: my own) even make it exceptionally difficult to use other routers. I had to install OpenWRT on my retail router to get it, and getting that working was such a pain.
Half the reason to own a security camera system is so you can monitor it while away. Can't do that if the system isn't online.
Online or cloud-accessed? Those are two separate things.
It’s going to be cloud accessed. People who install these to check on whether Mittens is sleeping aren’t setting up a domain or remembering an IP.
Maybe, but the difference is a lot more people are going to be looking to target the cloud provider than your home network. To say nothing of the fact that your videos on the cloud are subject to the terms and services that you agree to and those terms can be changed at any time. And also the fact that you can't guarantee that the stuff you delete off of that server is actually being deleted.
I can show you logs with tens of thousands of hits from all IPs all over the globe trying to gain access to a single NVR that has a port open on the WAN side of a network.
Besides email servers or FTP servers, cameras are the next highest thing target for attacks. The minute they go online they become a flaming red beacon for hackers.
Blatantly false. Nowhere in the article does it say this.
I'd almost say your exposure is bigger in the cloud. WAY more software involved, it's shared environment, and someone elses computer.... In addition, it's complex to properly setup. People often leave it alone once they get it working, no security test or checks.
Even IF it was because it was hosted at home, I blame the companies who build this shit. Market to end users, "super easy to use!!" But no security by default? Nuts.
Enable auto updates, randomly generated admin password (no defaults like 123456), and support for more then 3 years will go a LONG way for the average consumer.
You have a source for that?
Ok... But cloud services are centralized and have a lot more content to obtain, so that fundamentally makes them a more valuable target. This alone adds a level of relational security to maintaining a home backup of the information. Unless someone happens upon your home network and decides to hack it, or you download a file that sends up a flare, nobody is going to seek it out unless they know you have something specific they want.
If you have an IP camera system exposed to the outside, they will "happen upon you" within the hour.
It's one of the top things searched for in wide net port scans.
But unlike those cloud services, your home network likely doesn't have enterprise level threat detection to alert you to it, or a team of network engineers to try to guard against it.
Why the fuck are you broadcasting a beacon to come hack your network? Of course they are going to find it if you light it up like a Christmas tree with a giant neon sign. I said you set up your cameras to record locally. Only an idiot would set up a camera system with an unsecured exposed port. Hell, set up anything with an unsecured exposed port for that matter. Especially one that is an always broadcasting system. It doesn't even matter if you use a cloud provider at that point. All they have to do is hack an network hop near your home and install a man in the middle and they don't have to bother hacking a server farm to get your videos.