this post was submitted on 03 Jan 2024
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[–] derpgon@programming.dev 3 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Well, why not vote against it and defend yourself when accused of voting against education?

[–] JayleneSlide@lemmy.world 30 points 10 months ago (1 children)

"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes." - Jonathon Swift

So now you're investing time and effort to publicize why this bill was broken. Your political opposition successfully got you on the defensive. These strategies play a part of why fascism and authoritarianism are succeeding in the USA.

[–] derpgon@programming.dev 5 points 10 months ago

That's what I wanted to highlight by posting it. It's a lose/lose situation for America either way.

[–] Argurotoxus@lemmy.world 9 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Simply put, the attack is shorter and easier to understand than the nuanced defense.

Politicians can put "you're against education!" in a 15 second attack ad on the radio/TV/a poster. It takes a short media appearance to explain the nuance. Which isn't worth the time or money typically, since so few people will see it.

Especially since a huge section of our population gets 100% of its news from Fox, Newsmax, and other right wing media. That interview will never air there. In fact, those sources will repeat the party line of "you're against education!"

[–] dezmd@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

"Why do Republicans think about porn every time they discuss children?"

Thats how you frame it back at em.

[–] Promethiel@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

No no no. Nuance can only be used to pave a high road to hell. Get out of here with using it to fire back more intelligently yet equally dirty. We can only do one thing at a time, so it's high road all the way to the grave.

I mean, what's next in your suggestions? Using the free and available plethora of Republican politician child sex scandals as non-slanderous, factual, and real ammo fodder?

[–] skulblaka@startrek.website 2 points 10 months ago

The situations are clearly different because of the rabid faith of conservative followers, but that being said, it seems relatively easy enough to get on TV/media first and start spreading around "Republicans want to take your porn!" The situation could be explained pretty concisely within a 20 second TikTok or a shareable YouTube video.

Now don't get me wrong, if American political debate soils itself any further than it already has and fully becomes two-side mudslinging and nothing else, then I'm going to need to either leave the country or become radicalized. But it's becoming clear to me more and more these days that if the democrats want to throw their weight around they're going to need to lower their standards a bit. Instead of half hour appeals to judgment we need more 30-second dunks. Poli Sci students need to hear a detailed and nuanced discussion of a bill, but it's been readily proven again and again ad nauseum that the average person does not.

And I'm not advocating that they lie, only to use the framework of a lie in order to spread the message. A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth can put its shoes on, specifically because the instant something might maybe be relevant to something someone thinks exists, somebody is on Fox news spouting 30 second dunks about it. The instant we hear what's going on with the bill rider somebody should have been on TikTok, YouTube and X posting a 30 second dunk about how Republicans are abusing education bills to steal all porn from everyone, everywhere. Don't lie, but take strategies from their playbook. I want an account doing blow by blow daily updates on everything the R's have their grubby mitts in, in the same way that there are accounts doing blow by blow daily updates about exactly how many children they accuse Kamala Harris of having eaten. Except this one will have credible sources.

Point being, personally, I'm growing extremely jaded and tired of the way political discussion works in America. On one hand we have the Democrats making an effort to fully explain away and good faith debate (most of) their bills, with a handful of notable and upsetting exceptions. On the other hand we have a pit of screaming pigs that will debate nothing, will source nothing, will sneak last minute riders into bills they had nothing to do with, and will lie at the top of their lungs constantly and without regard to what they are lying about. The pigs in question have proven themselves either unwilling or incapable of rising to a level of proper political discussion expected from an elected official, and it's becoming clear that if the relevant populace isn't going to vote out (or in some cases, isn't going to be allowed to vote out) the representative, the only way to engage with them effectively in a political sense is to sink to their level. At which point we are all well and truly fucked and what gods remain in the world have abandoned us.

[–] awesomesauce309@midwest.social 6 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Judging from what they said, it took a year to come to fruition and a week to poison the apple. The current kindergarteners are gonna be grown and graduated by the time the red tape lets way for another vote on the matter. Why not just make bills strictly about the thing they are proposing?

[–] derpgon@programming.dev 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Because a bill about adding irrelevant stuff to bills wouldn't pass.

[–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago

Or it’ll have some insane riders