this post was submitted on 17 Jan 2024
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For those of you who haven't been in a school bus in years, do you remember how loud they are? Reducing diesel pollution is a win, but being in a less-noisy environment for however long each day is also a win.
As a cyclist and occasional user of public transit, I really like the idea of most buses eventually being at least plug-in hybrid-electric if not entirely battery electric. I'm curious about the mass difference between a diesel, diesel-electric, and battery-electric bus (after all, the heavier the vehicle, the harder it is on the road). I expect some of the fuel-and-maintenance-cost-savings from the bus fleet will have to go to road maintenance in the end, but I'd rather spend money that way (locally) than spend it on pumping fresh hot carbon out of foreign wellheads
Diesel-Electric Hybrid should also be considered as an option depending on the use case of the service area. As a hybrid, the bus wouldn't need to run it's diesel engine at the school pickup point, would have the the benefit of regenerative braking, and overall have better fuel economy, emissions, and longevity of the engine.
This would be beneficial to areas that are too rural and have too long of routes for the batteries to last and areas that have a lot of cold weather might not want to risk freezing their kids because the batteries suddenly have to both drive and heat the whole bus. Cities could be all electric because the routes are much shorter and overall be operating at lower speeds. Also, much more stop-and-go, so the regen braking will really shine.
Will people stop trying to put batteries in everything already? They are heavy, slow to charge, unsustainable, cause fires that can't be extinguished and are affected by extreame weather(especially cold).
Public transit runs on predefined routes, for that you can setup trams(best option) or trolleybuses(no need for rails). I don't care that you think the wires look ugly, they are objectively the better solution.
Almost like we're still putting money into research to solve all those problems. Much of what you cite is overblown, and what remains valid isn't going to stay that way.
Edit: also, school buses need to support a lot of routes that are off the main roads. Tram or trolley systems are not feasible.
Most of what I cited applies to li-ion tech, and not sure what you mean by overblown, lithium fires are a nightmare and lithium doesn't grow on trees so we will run out of it. And recylcing is not a solution, we've seen how that works for much easier to recycle materials. The alternatives such as sodium batteries are even heavier due to lower power density. Imo there should be more research put into battery alternatives such as hydrogen cells.
As for school buses, wires may not be feasable, but the comment I replied to mentioned most buses not just school buses.
Not all lithium chemistries have fire issues, and lithium isn't the only chemistry on the horizon. Oceanic lithium sources are basically indefinite--there's more than we would have a use for. There are also alternative extraction methods that open up more economical sources ("mineral reserve" means the economically exractable sources, not the complete total amount).
Recycling products like this will work when there's scale to justify it, which there will be in about a decade. In fact, we don't necessarily need to fully recycle it. Cells that are no longer useful for cars can still be useful for general storage, so we'd reuse rather than recycle.
Hydrogen is a dead end. Inefficient and would require a totally separate and unnecessary set of infrastructure from battery charging. Why pay for two sets when one will do?
If you're using an argument against EVs that's repeated on the right, it's almost always bullshit. If it's an argument unique to the left, such as how cars have created terrible cities and EVs don't fix that, it's on much better ground. That's not relevant to busses, however.
Do you not understand what a school buses job is? That route changes every year and not everyone lives where you can expect kids to be able walk to a high traffic bus stop.
If you had proper public transport that number would be quite negligible. Very very occasionally you see dedicated school buses in rural areas in Germany: Minivans. Which makes sense as boondonks areas might not have bus service but have collect taxis as only public transport, which generally are also minivans. Think living in a village of 50 and going to a school in another village, population of 2k or so. The scale of Wacken, maybe a bit smaller. Let me see... Yeah Bokelrehm doesn't have a bus station. OTOH it's like a kilometre from the school in Wacken so kids are probably biking ("Grundschule Wacken", northern end of the village on the road to Bokelrehm).
Usually the most that happens is that a regular bus service gets a doubled-up schedule when school starts and ends.
Do you not understand that the comment I replied to mentioned most buses not just school buses?
The article is about school buses.
No technology ever comes out free of caveats, and trams, even though they are way better than busses, require years of public work on the infrastructure. That job should be started ASAP, but letting diesel run in the meanwhile is pointless
Which is why I said trolleybuses are the next best thing. Not as good as trams, but doesn't take years to hang some wires on poles...
Adam Something videos are great, but his opinion shouldn't be taken uncritically. Doubly so in a North American context, which has very different economic issues with mass transit adoption compared to his EU roots. He often rails against politicians who are trying to take some of America's bad ideas and implement them in Europe. In NA, we have to deal with the fact that this shit is already here. Note how YouTubers who do have an NA background, like Not Just Bikes or City Nerd, are more cyncial about trams and trollys while still supporting the general idea.
In any case, trollys and trams aren't going to work for school buses. They need to serve every nook and cranny of a city. That's why they're separate from other public transportation in the first place. Short of having wires literally everywhere, it's not feasible.
I think the most important thing about schools in the US would be to reduce their size. The minimum size for a primary school in my state is 80 pupils under ordinary circumstances, arbitrarily few if the location requires it (the commute would be intolerable, we don't do boarding in primary education), Nordstrandischmoor (an island) has a primary school with one teacher and two students. Average size is about 270, scattered throughout towns and every village with a population over 1k or so. Our rural density is lower than that of US suburbia so it's definitely doable to have a primary school within what 500m of most of pupils and 3km max for anything but exceptional cases. Probably few enough that you don't want to use a bus but a minivan if it's a place where public transport doesn't reach.