320
Revealed: car industry was warned keyless vehicles vulnerable to theft a decade ago
(www.theguardian.com)
this post was submitted on 26 Feb 2024
320 points (95.7% liked)
Technology
59135 readers
2532 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related content.
- Be excellent to each another!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
Approved Bots
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Aren't all cars within the past decades using rolling keys?
This article does not do a good job of explaining what the attack vectors are.
Among other things, this is why I wanted a house with a garage. I just keep my car in the garage.
I'm very much in the minority in my neighborhood though. Everyone seems to use their garage for other things then park in the driveway or on the street. It annoys me to no end.
Odd thing to be that annoyed by. I don't understand people who obsess over the way other people's houses look. Unless you have an expensive car or a project car it seems like a waste of good space to store a car in the garage. But hey, to each their own.
If I had a garage it would totally be used for shop space and storage. Most people here seem to use their garages as additional space. My car can survive the rain just fine outside. The tools and equipment I wish I had space for, not so much.
Shame you let other people's reasonable decisions bother you. Not everyone wants to obsess over opening a car.
A car sitting outside all the time will absolutely wear much faster than one that's in a garage. I mean people can do what they want, I don't care, but it's not just a cosmetic thing to keep your car indoors when you're not using it.
Public space used for the storage of personal items, paid for by tax or rate payers...
I mean, a garage or covered parking is better than leaving a vehicle out in the elements in a fair few cases (hail storms, snow - especially in plow areas or places where they salt the roads, etc). It's nice in inclement weather to be able to get into a vehicle dry and not exposed to the elements. Your insurance may be cheaper because you aren't parking a vehicle in the open where it could be vandalized or stolen.
I don't care what their house looks like. But it does make it more difficult to navigate the street when they park at the curb, blocking the view on the curves and at the stop sign. And park right at the entrance so it's a hassle to get in and out because that's also a curve.
When I moved in I was worried the truck wouldn't be able to make it to my house because they park on both sides of the street. Thankfully I did it during the day so they were mostly gone.
Garages aren’t at all secure, FYI. There are a number of ways in, from physically hooking the release that hangs from the opening mechanism, to cloning the wireless fob (much, much easier than car fobs.)
Yea, but I'd also hear that since it means I'm home. That's the important part. If my car is on the street or in the driveway gonna be harder to tell it's my car taking off. And even if I did, it's already too late for me to do anything about it.
And my garage has no windows so you can't even tell if there's a car in there.
Eh, you’d likely be surprised. If your garage opened at 4am and you were dead asleep, would you actually hear it? Because I sure as hell wouldn’t.
Don’t get me wrong, I leave things in my garage unsecured. I just make sure to deadbolt the interior door.
Just wanted to make sure to point out that a garage isn’t as secure as the inside of your house. (And even that isn’t very secure.)
Yes. Curse of being a light sleeper now. It's also right under my bedroom. Plus, even odds on me still being awake at 4AM.🙂
It's still an extra hurdle, an attacker will prefer a car parked outside in the driveway.
https://lemmy.world/comment/7917009
Damn wtf. I think I learned of this and forgot
It’s near impossible to clone the signal from newer rolling codes, you need to trigger the key fob with out the signal reaching the car and then recorded with the flipper zero, then played back to the car. It takes a lot of coordination using the key fob. Here are some videos of it.
https://youtu.be/HwdoHMVKTpU?si=BZpgfJRsOjquIqL1
https://youtu.be/5CsD8I396wo?si=5Mkc6EFUH2HZG9vo
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/HwdoHMVKTpU?si=BZpgfJRsOjquIqL1
https://piped.video/5CsD8I396wo?si=5Mkc6EFUH2HZG9vo
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Those videos aren't for cars with keyless entry. Those cars have a bladed key for placing in an ignition lock cylinder to start the vehicle (or in the case of the mini, which is a car I actually own, into the little slot for the round key fob).The flipper zero recording a code isn't what I am talking about when I talk about repeater attacks. What I'm talking about is using a receiver to receive and amplify the code so that they can use keyless entry (where you simply touch the vehicles door handle with your hand with the key within three feet of the car) and only requires you to have the key on you. Did you read the other comment I linked? This isn't about having a key with buttons that are required to be pressed to enter the car. This is literally about passive keyless entry. Please go read the articles I linked.
I mentioned nothing about signal cloning and you clearly didn't read.
https://www.techtarget.com/whatis/definition/passive-keyless-entry-PKE
Oh my bad, I was inferring that from the original article. Those articles you posted are good and talk about the CAN attack, but the original article talks about the rolling codes using a flipper zero like device.
My bad, I didn't intend to come off badly, I just literally had a similar conversation when someone who didn't read what I wrote, completely ignored whole sections of the article, and I may have come off a bit terse as a result. But you are correct about the flipper zero specifically.
These are different attack vectors.
The classic one was listening to a key, then impersonating it later.
Rolling keys fixed that.
For keyless, the usual attack is working as a relay.
Victim is 30m from their car, too far for keyless.
Attacker stands between the car and the victim with a transceiver that links the car and the key together, despite the distance, and opens it.
Yes.