this post was submitted on 19 Jul 2024
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Lefty Memes

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An international (English speaking) socialist Lemmy community free of the "ML" influence of instances like lemmy.ml and lemmygrad. This is a place for undogmatic shitposting and memes from a progressive, anti-capitalist and truly anti-imperialist perspective, regardless of specific ideology.

Serious posts, news, and discussion go in c/Socialism.

If you are new to socialism, you can ask questions and find resources over on c/Socialism101.

Please don't forget to help keep this community clean by reporting rule violations, updooting good contributions and downdooting those of low-quality!

Rules

Version without spoilers

0. Only post socialist memes


That refers to funny image macros and means that generally videos and screenshots are not allowed. Exceptions include explicitly humorous and short videos, as well as (social media) screenshots depicting a funny situation, joke, or joke picture relating to socialist movements, theory, societal issues, or political opponents. Examples would be the classic case of humorous Tumblr or Twitter posts/threads. (and no, agitprop text does not count as a meme)


1. Socialist Unity in the form of mutual respect and good faith interactions is enforced here


Try to keep an open mind, other schools of thought may offer points of view and analyses you haven't considered yet. Also: This is not a place for the Idealism vs. Materialism or rather Anarchism vs. Marxism debate(s), for that please visit c/AnarchismVsMarxism.


2. Anti-Imperialism means recognizing capitalist states like Russia and China as such


That means condemning (their) imperialism, even if it is of the "anti-USA" flavor.


3. No liberalism, (right-wing) revisionism or reactionaries.


That includes so called: Social Democracy, Democratic Socialism, Dengism, Market Socialism, Patriotic Socialism, National Bolshevism, Anarcho-Capitalism etc. . Anti-Socialist people and content have no place here, as well as the variety of "Marxist"-"Leninists" seen on lemmygrad and more specifically GenZedong (actual ML's are welcome as long as they agree to the rules and don't just copy paste/larp about stuff from a hundred years ago).


4. No Bigotry.


The only dangerous minority is the rich.


5. Don't demonize previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.


We must constructively learn from their mistakes, while acknowledging their achievements and recognizing when they have strayed away from socialist principles.

(if you are reading the rules to apply for modding this community, mention "Mantic Minotaur" when answering question 2)


6. Don't idolize/glorify previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.


Notable achievements in all spheres of society were made by various socialist/people's/democratic republics around the world. Mistakes, however, were made as well: bureaucratic castes of parasitic elites - as well as reactionary cults of personality - were established, many things were mismanaged and prejudice and bigotry sometimes replaced internationalism and progressiveness.



  1. Absolutely no posts or comments meant to relativize(/apologize for), advocate, promote or defend:

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[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 6 points 4 months ago (25 children)

And like. I’d consider myself a far left liberal, in the sense of how the U.S. defined liberal when I learned the terms, where it was more a place on the political spectrum, rather than a codified set of ideas.

The funny thing is, the US defined liberal is the codified set of ideas, liberalism is just to the left of the median in America. America is that far-right.

Right to left, I’d define the that spectrum as Reactionary (Alt-right), conservative, centrist, liberal, and revolutionary (leftist, I think?). I know that those terms have different meanings in other countries.

The problem is that you jump straight from Liberal to Revolutionary, there's a spectrum of thought among leftists. Revolution may be correct, but there are schools of reformist thought as well. Additionally, liberals and all those to the right of them are Reactionary, just in varying degrees. A "centrist" would be left of liberalism, ie a Social Democrat or Market Socialist.

I’d consider the Republican Party to currently be between conservative and alt-right, with the Democratic Party being centrist with liberal window dressing.

The Democrats are Neoliberal, there's no set dressing. Liberalism is just right-wing. Conservatives are far-right populists, ie fascists in some cases.

I think the U.S. political system is fucked. It was never intended to accommodate political parties, let alone the nearly 250 years of maneuvering by capitalists to slip reigns onto the government, which now appears to have fully succeeded.

On the contrary, the US was designed by wealthy Capitalists to benefit themselves. The system is working as intended, protecting Capitalists.

I believe that the embrace of fascism by the Republican Party is a means to control the ~60% of people who are left of center and without cohesive political representation because of limitations of the U.S. political system/bastardization of it/the pernicious influence of capitalism.

Fascism is a class-colaborative alliance between the bourgeoisie and petite bourgeoisie against the proletariat and lumpenproletariat along nationalist lines to attempt to forcibly return to a less-decayed state of Capitalism.

I don’t support the Democratic Party, nor do I really feel the U.S. government is in a place to fix itself without some foundational things changing. I don’t think, realistically, that those things can be changed without mass engagement and effort, which… sigh. I’m doing what I can.

Correct. Join an org!

But also, I don’t believe a revolt or some form of dramatic U.S. government reformation is possible. As a result, the folks that are already demanding change and have given up hope for reforming the system are hostile to me, and the other folks fall into the camp of being disengaged/only mildly upset or even desirous of a slide into fascism. It feels like there isn’t really enough people who are unified who want to change course without throwing the whole thing out.
I honestly feel kind of alone.

Reform cannot work, Revolution is the only way. Build up dual power, organize, and try to build up parallel structures. Organize!

What happens if the U.S. does elect Trump and it swings full fascism?

Beating Trump won't stop the conditions for fascism, only Leftism can. Fascism can only be kicked down the road, until the ratchet effect takes us there anyways, unless Leftists organize.

I’m not trying to challenge or debate anyone here. I don’t think you’re stupid, nor do I think the ideals are bad. I fucking wish society was more altruistic and smarter.
I just… don’t see any realistic or actionable outcome other than to keep fighting for every inch using the tools we have, even if they are faulty, entrenched systems.
Call me propagandized, unimaginative, cynical or stupid, or… whatever, I guess. I just don’t see other viable options, and I think broadcasting moral superiority, embracing divisiveness and exhibiting hostility is going to create roadblocks, should we need to unite. If we can.

You've got the core of it, but not the theory. Try reading Leftist theory! Whether it be Marxist or Anarchist, leftists have been attempting to fix the system and are growing in power.

[–] Mjpasta710@midwest.social 1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (16 children)

Because every proletariat revolution has resulted in equality and not a speed run to mass poverty... Why would it work this time? When has it ever worked in reality? Where's the beautiful shining example of Marxist success?

Let's copy that now. (I can't find an example of it).

When do you realize revolution is an acceleration of entropy in society.

You're proposing to bloodlet society and end up with less for the people, and more for the rich.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml -1 points 4 months ago (15 children)

Because every proletariat revolution has resulted in equality and not a speed run to mass poverty... Why would it work this time? When has it ever worked in reality? Where's the beautiful shining example of Marxist success?

Cuba, the USSR, PRC, etc. All resulted in vastly improved conditions with respect to their previous conditions. Cuba was a fascist slave society, Russia was under the underdeveloped tyranny of the Tsar, and China was run by Nationalists and had been colonized for a century. In the USSR and PRC, life expectancy doubled.

If your current understanding is that society was fine and dandy, and then became worse after implementing Socialism, then you really need to open a history book. Life certainly didn't become amazing and perfect, but life did get better gradually after overthrowing their brutal previous conditions.

Let's copy that now. (I can't find an example of it).

What do you mean by this? There are AES states like Cuba today.

When do you realize revolution is an acceleration of entropy in society.

There's no "entropy" in society, society is not made up of "energy." Revolution is a consequence of unsustainable conditions, like previously shown.

You're proposing to bloodlet society and end up with less for the people, and more for the rich.

How? Please explain what this means. I am advocating for democratically controlling production so that it can service the needs and wants of the people, rather than wealthy Capitalists as it does in curreny society.

[–] Mjpasta710@midwest.social 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

How? Please explain what this means. I am advocating for democratically controlling production so that it can service the needs and wants of the people, rather than wealthy Capitalists as it does in curreny society.

You're advocating revolution, if I'm reading your words correctly.

That involves a radical restructuring of society. You're advocating violently modifying the roles of individuals to fit your new goals. That has historically and always involved a bloodletting.

As I understand it Marxism is about being authoritarian in government (telling people what to do, and punishing those who don't comply) and ensuring via government that resources are equally distributed. This concentrates power among the ruling elite. Historically, this continues the corruption it claims to end. So, what I'm saying essentially - that Marxism is a neat philosophy - It doesn't line up with reality or achieve its stated goals.

It does kill all the dissenting opinions and create the echo chamber that has consistently been corrupted and hasn't stood the test of time.

So if there's to be a bloodletting. Let it begin with those asking for it, first.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml -2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

You're advocating revolution, if I'm reading your words correctly.

That involves a radical restructuring of society. You're advocating violently modifying the roles of individuals to fit your new goals. That has historically and always involved a bloodletting.

I'm advocating for Marxism. Revolution will happen regardless, Capitalism continues to decay and conditions for the Proletariat continue to crumble. Marxists should do their best to make sure this revolution is equitable for the people and democratic in nature, rather than be co-opted by fascists.

As I understand it Marxism is about being authoritarian in government (telling people what to do, and punishing those who don't comply) and ensuring via government that resources are equally distributed. This concentrates power among the ruling elite. Historically, this continues the corruption it claims to end. So, what I'm saying essentially - that Marxism is a neat philosophy - It doesn't line up with reality or achieve its stated goals.

You're wrong on quite a few things here.

  1. Marxism is about having a Democratic Worker-State. All governments "tell people what to do and punish those who don't comply," even Anarchists. There were forced labor camps in Revolutionary Catalonia.

  2. Marxism is not about even or equal distribution of resources. Marxism is about meeting everyones needs with what is produced as best as possible. People have unequal needs and unequal contributions.

  3. This does not "concentrate power around the ruling elite." It's a shift from power in the hands of Capitalists to power in the hands of the Workers.

  4. There is corruption in AES states, yes, but this is not "the same corruption," not even close. Capitalist states function via corruption, and anti-corruption policies are extremely popular in AES countries.

Marxism does line up with reality and does meet its goals, you have been wrong at every line and supported it with your feelings, not supporting evidence.

It does kill all the dissenting opinions and create the echo chamber that has consistently been corrupted and hasn't stood the test of time.

It allows dissenting opinions, just not the resurgence of Capitalism, just like now we do not allow Monarchists to retake power. Marxism has also withstood the test of time.

So if there's to be a bloodletting. Let it begin with those asking for it, first.

More vibes and unclear positions.

[–] Mjpasta710@midwest.social 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

More vibes and unclear positions.

A person doesn't have to have a clear position or solution to know that something isn't right. This revolution you're expecting, when does it start?

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml -2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

The Revolution starts when the Material Conditions call for it. Imperialism is weakening, and more countries in the Global South are turning their backs on the US and trying to develop themselves.

[–] Mjpasta710@midwest.social 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I see. I'll keep waiting for that to happen. I fully expect human nature to continue as it has.

Please make sure you are ready to be the first since this is your ideal. The grinder needs meat to keep going.

History will continue to repeat itself as it has.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml -1 points 4 months ago

I see. I'll keep waiting for that to happen. I fully expect human nature to continue as it has.

What is "human nature?" More vibes and no facts.

Please make sure you are ready to be the first since this is your ideal. The grinder needs meat to keep going.

I truly wish Revolution could be avoided, but just like the Kings of Feudalism, Capitalists will continue to extract and brutalize the working class until it can sustain itself no longer. I would like to survive, of course, but it doesn't change what will happen.

History will continue to repeat itself as it has.

For better and for worse.

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