this post was submitted on 31 Jul 2024
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Is the Federation "Communist" or Socialist? (startrek.website)
submitted 3 months ago by MrSaturn@startrek.website to c/startrek@startrek.website
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Hi there, I'm not trying to start a political argument or anything, I'm just curious what people here think about this often repeated claim that the Federation is a socialist or even communist utopia? I know Strange New Worlds did say in dialogue it is socialist but I was wondering if people here think that's accurate? I'm not a communist or a marxist or anything like that, but I've had people who identify as such tell me the Federation basically is communist. So anyway, what's your thoughts?

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[–] TC_209@hexbear.net 21 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Capitalism was eliminated on Earth by the New World Economy, which was likely a Dictatorship of the Proletariat as envisioned by Marx, Engels, Lenin, Roddenberry, etc. The Federation appears to be a classless, moneyless post-DotP society that still has one primary state apparatus (the Federation itself) that oversees many smaller state apparatuses (the Federation's many member-worlds). You'll notice a contradiction, though: If a state "is a system by which the ruling class maintains and perpetuates its dominance within the social formation... by subjugating the other class(es) within class society" then how can the Federation be a classless society? I propose two solutions:

  1. Star Trek is fiction and fictional worlds are often incomplete and contradictory. Everything I've said about the New World Economy, the Federation, etc. should be taken with a grain of quadrotriticale.
  2. No society has established a DotP, and there are certainly no examples of post-DotP societies. Marxism is a scientific and materialist worldview -- it has evolved since the 19th century and it will continue to evolve into the 23rd century and beyond.

EDIT: My answer is "Yes, but it's Advanced Sci-Fi Communism."

[–] MrSaturn@startrek.website 5 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Was Roddenberry a Marxist?

[–] TC_209@hexbear.net 17 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Most sources on Roddenberry's political beliefs are people who knew him, and they didn't open up about those beliefs until after his death. Here's an article that I've skimmed:

According to his last wife, Majel Barrett, he identified as a communist. But we know from the many accounts of his unethical business practices that he was also obsessed with making money. He preached peace and love but was infamously difficult to get along with. And he flew the flag for feminism while being a notorious womanizer.

Gene was a delightful man with great creativity and talent, but he was also a deeply flawed man who often failed to practice what he preached.

[–] MrSaturn@startrek.website 3 points 3 months ago

Interesting, he was an actual communist. Had no idea