this post was submitted on 04 Aug 2024
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[–] breadsmasher@lemmy.world 111 points 3 months ago (12 children)

those who dedicate their lives to gaining and holding onto massive wealth and power, are the ones least fit to wield massive wealth and power.

[–] alvvayson@lemmy.dbzer0.com 35 points 3 months ago (11 children)

Which is why the tax system needs to be reformed.

The political right actually has one good point that we on the left don't always appreciate: taxes on middle class people should be lower.

Specifically, very liberal tax exemptions on things like 401Ks, including the ability to transfer wealth across generations.

Combine that with higher taxes on the wealthy, and it will be possible to shift power to the middle class.

Consider the total market cap of the S&P 500, rounded up it's about 50 trillion. Divide that among 130 million households and each household should own about $400K in stock on average.

Full equality is neither achievable nor desired by most people, so a good scheme would be to let every household hold up to $1M in wealth, tax exempt.

And then progressively tax everything above that.

[–] leisesprecher@feddit.org 50 points 3 months ago (7 children)

Problem is, people usually by far overestimate their position in society.

If you say "tax the rich" a whole lot of people feel like it's about them even though they barely count as middle class.

Here in Germany I've had countless debates about inheritance tax. If your parents die, you only have to pay taxes (10%) on anything over 400k, and that's per child. That means, most people will never pay a cent of inheritance tax, yet they are horrified by the idea of it, because they firmly believe, their parents shitty house in a village somewhere will bankrupt them and their two siblings.

People fundamentally don't understand their own wealth and how tiny their wealth is compared to the billionaires class.

[–] alvvayson@lemmy.dbzer0.com 18 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Yes, I fully agree.

So we need to find the right messaging.

I don't know about Germany, but here in the Netherlands most people identify as middle class.

So "stop taxing the middle class" and "let the billionaires pay more" is a message that should resonate.

I'm optimistic and I believe we will get there. The level of equality we have today would be unfathomable for somebody living before 1945.

[–] leisesprecher@feddit.org 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Thing is, I agree with your sentiment, but I'm 95% sure, this will be killed by political interests.

Everyone wants to be middle class, be in reality, a married couple of tenured teachers already is upper class. I'm upper class, since I'm a single software developer.

There was a reform recently, where couples having combined incomes over something like 180k would get less benefits for their children. Hardly anybody would have been affected by this, but the genuine outrage of middle class people was gigantic, because these morons don't want to accept, that they're not rich.

I'm really afraid for our democracy because so many people are willfully stupid. It's not that they're incapable of knowing or understanding, they don't want to understand. For whatever reason....

[–] Womble@lemmy.world 27 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

No you are not upper class if you are a married couple of teachers, that is exactly the point you made before about people overestimating their place in society. If you have to work to earn money you are not upper class, the upper classes already have so much wealth that they can live off the passive proceeds of that wealth.

Yes your dual income might but you in the top 15% of incomes, but wealth is the defining characteristic of the truly rich not income.

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