this post was submitted on 21 Aug 2024
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Electric Vehicles

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116
Why No One Wants To Sell You A $25,000 EV (insideevs.com)
submitted 4 weeks ago by MyOpinion@lemm.ee to c/evs@lemmy.world
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There is a fundamental truth you have to understand about car companies:They do not exist to make cars. They exist to make money. That distinction, analyst Kevin Tynan tells me, is why they’re not really interested in making affordable electric vehicles.

Perhaps that’s an oversimplification. Tynan is the director of research at an auto-dealer-focused investment bank, the Presidio Group, with decades of experience as an analyst at firms like Bloomberg Intelligence. What he means isn’t that automakers have no interest in affordable products. It’s that their interest begins and ends with winning customers who will eventually buy more expensive, higher-margin products.

One of the auto industry’s dirtiest secrets is that at scale, it doesn’t cost that much more to make a bigger, more expensive than a smaller and cheaper one. But they can charge you a lot more for the former, which makes this a game of profit margins and not just profits. In recent years especially, that’s a big part of why your new car choices have skewed so heavily toward bigger crossovers, SUVs and trucks.

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[–] tyler@programming.dev 3 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

If you’re comparing an ICE vehicle that can get 400 miles a tank to an EV then you are being completely disingenuous to compare it to an EV that only gets 100-150 miles of range. They’re not comparable. An EV that gets even close to the same range is going to way much much more than a comparable ICE vehicle.

[–] wewbull@feddit.uk 3 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

If you got 400 miles on a 100kWh pack you'll be getting 300 on a 60kWh pack.

[–] tyler@programming.dev 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

It completely depends on your drive configuration and aerodynamic efficiency rating. Also I don’t know why you think I said anything about getting 400 miles on a 100kWh pack. This conversation is about weight. You don’t just get to say “get a smaller battery pack and then the cars weight the same” because it makes them completely different cars. The average ICE vehicle (of the top25 sold) gets 460 miles of range. https://insideevs.com/features/527446/electric-cars-range-equilibrium/ (funny enough this article is literally what we’re arguing about!)

In any case, I’m not even arguing for larger batteries! I’m just stating that you can’t compare weight if you aren’t going to compare range. They go hand in hand.

[–] wewbull@feddit.uk 1 points 2 weeks ago

2w old conversation, but what I was trying to say is that 100-150 miles (your example) isn't the alternative to 400 miles in an EV (which will absolutely require a 100kWh pack). As you reduce the range through a smaller battery you get some range back through reduced weight.

[–] helenslunch@feddit.nl 0 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

No it's not? 400 miles of range is completely unnecessary.

[–] Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 1 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (2 children)

400 miles of range is 5 hours of driving (plus enough reserve to comfortably skip a busy, broken, blocked, or skeevy recharging point), recharge over lunch, and another 5 hours of driving. 400 mile range is where road trips become feasible.

400 miles of range, in the mountains, is 150 miles of range.

[–] zeekaran@sopuli.xyz 1 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

My ice has less range than 400 so this is a bit of an exaggeration.

[–] tyler@programming.dev 1 points 2 weeks ago

I mean it’s not, we have two ICE vehicles with 400 miles of range, and one EV with 265 miles of range.

[–] Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 1 points 4 weeks ago

ICEs can refuel during a bathroom break. EVs need a long lunch. Turning every bathroom break into a long lunch makes a 3-day trip into a 5-day trip.

[–] helenslunch@feddit.nl -2 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Weird, because I just did a several thousand mile road trip through the mountains last month with half that range.

[–] Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 3 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (1 children)

And I can put in a leather gimp suit and have my partner spank me with a ping pong paddle. You don't shame me for my masochistic kinks, and I won't shame you for yours. Deal?

The overwhelming majority of us don't have a fetish for recharging stations, and don't want to spend 2 hours a day on our vacations to make short-range EVs seem feasible.

[–] helenslunch@feddit.nl 0 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

LOL I don't have a kink. It's really not a problem to stop every 3 hours to take a break.

[–] Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 1 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Recharge every three hours?

Masochist.

[–] tyler@programming.dev 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

It’s not. I own a very nice EV. I can make arguments for and against both EVs and ICE vehicles. If you are comparing battery size (which you did) then you are talking about range. If you are talking about range then you are comparing against ICE vehicles which have ranges from 350 miles to over 600. I used 400 because I own two ICE vehicles with that amount of range and one EV with 265 miles of range. The 265 miles is plenty for everyday stuff, it’s even good for road trips! But you made a comparison of weight. EVs are much heavier if they have equivalent range.

[–] helenslunch@feddit.nl 1 points 2 weeks ago

If you are talking about range then you are comparing against ICE vehicles

I wasn't talking about range, I was talking about weight.