this post was submitted on 04 Sep 2023
840 points (85.2% liked)

Antiwork

8259 readers
6 users here now

  1. We're trying to improving working conditions and pay.

  2. We're trying to reduce the numbers of hours a person has to work.

  3. We talk about the end of paid work being mandatory for survival.

Partnerships:

founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] Chriszz@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Who’s going to take care of you?

Are we owed anything simply by being born?

[–] chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com 14 points 1 year ago

Are we owed anything simply by being born?

A major problem with our society is that everything is framed conceptually as debt. A world where you are not born into debt is seen as unjust because your basic needs must be provided by others, and that can supposedly only be a financial transaction.

But from a purely logistical and motivational perspective, it's easy to imagine not threatening people with homelessness and death for not working. Everything is heavily automated. The large majority of people used to be subsistence farmers, now the proportion working in agriculture is less than 2% and we produce way more than is actually needed for human survival. You only need a little bit of labor provided beyond transactional compensation to make it happen. As for why anyone would choose to do so, it would be for all the same reasons people already work other than the threat of death; status, money, luxury, desire for purpose and fulfillment.

The only question is whether it is morally good and acceptable to allocate resources to someone without demanding payment. And it is; just stop thinking of debt as inherently right and required, and recognize that it's better not to force debt on someone just for being born and having basic needs.

[–] nehal3m@sh.itjust.works 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You are not owed a damn thing, the universe is a cold, uncaring bitch.

That said, we humans are nothing if not an ingenious bunch. We've come up with all sorts of ways to work more efficiently. The amount of work that once bought an hour of light now buys 51 years of it

Instead of choosing to work less and live a life of leisure, freedom and the pursuit of happiness, we kept working at the same or an increasing rate to make more money, or rather, those who own(ed) the capital and technology that makes it so did.

It's a bit of a pithy answer in an online comment but I genuinely believe humanity as a whole would be happier with less if it meant we got to live life on our own terms by default. Ever growing consumption way past the point of necessity comes with a host of problems (power and wealth imbalance, climate change, destruction of nature, etc) but by far the biggest one is the sheer waste of our few laps around the sun.

[–] Heritage4880@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think this is easily represented by the fact that technology keeps improving, things get automated but somehow we are still working the same, if not more.

[–] nehal3m@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago

Thanks for the summary.

[–] willeypete23@reddthat.com 9 points 1 year ago

Every square inch of the earth is owned. I cannot fuck off into the woods, build a cabin, grow vegetables, hunt food, etc. I'm forced to be a part of society. Laws say I cannot provide for myself by natural means, there for society is required to provide for me within its system.

[–] uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 1 year ago

In actual civilization, yes, we are.

Basic accommodations are a human right according to the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

Jesus had a few things to say about feeding the hungry, but Paul didn't fully agree.

[–] AdmiralShat@programming.dev 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Arguably, yes, you are owed a debt to AND from society for its forced participation.

We have built a system I cannot easily escape without first participating in it for decades