this post was submitted on 10 Oct 2024
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Sorry, but why is the GOP donating huge amounts to Stein and helping keep her on the ballot if she isn't running as a spoiler? Im sure theyre just concerned about democracy as they are in other parts of the country.
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/republican-allies-jill-stein-green-party-democrats-ballots-battleground-states/
This being said, I wish the green party really was a viable option at the moment, but not with Stein in charge. Shes been helped by the GOP and Russia for a long time:
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/06/20/jill-stein-green-party-no-regrets-2016-215281/
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/russians-launched-pro-jill-stein-social-media-blitz-help-trump-n951166
That's democracy in a country where money equals free speech, and Democrats, by doing nothing to change campaign finance laws, have demonstrated that they're content to operate in a country where money equals speech.
Also, I don't think that participation in a democracy deserves to be invalidated simply because it's inconvenient for your side, especially when your side has held power twice in sixteen years and their policies have pushed voters away.
I gave several examples of how Democratic governance has been actively harmful in the US and throughout the world.
They had the power to do better, so it's a tad silly that they feel entitled to the votes that may go Green in November.
Given that there's only two sides in the US, you are admitting that you are solidly on Trump's side
Given how obvious it is that there are many different groups amongst left-wing politics and a great degree of nuance therein, I cannot possibly see your post as anything other than a deliberately bad-faith interpretation.
Your argument wont mean much if one side eliminates elections and deports/arrests leftist dissenters (as they have promised). If you care about change its irresponsible to not vote against the dictator this time around. Harris wont outlaw protests, criticism and elections, for example. Trump and Vance will.
None of that changes anything about the fact that this is still the entirely wrong way to go about trying to win an election. The Democrats are letting people down and trying to win solely off of Trump being worse. You shouldn't be surprised that this strategy does not resonate with people. If everyone here pressured the Democrats to do better instead of yelling at folks for not being jazzed about milquetoast-at-best non-promises, I can guarantee you voter turnout would be much better.
i don't know why your assumption is that people--especially in this thread--aren't simultaneously doing this. i am literally a card-carrying member of the Democratic Socialists of America (and have been since... 2019, 2020?) for example. and that activism is a big source of my problem with the arguments in this thread in the first place. there are about 60 DSA state legislators and probably 200 or more local DSA elected officials doing exactly what you're asking right now. two of our members, Jamaal Bowman and Cori Bush, explicitly lost their Congressional seats this year over their activism for Palestine and pressuring the Democrats to do better.
what do the Greens have comparable to that? and how does voting third party do anything to pressure the Democrats that Cori Bush's eviction moratorium protest, or Bowman's DSA-led Green New Deal for Public Schools, or any of the policies i mentioned downthread at Flashmob like the Build Public Renewables Act don't do more effectively? i can show you that Bush fighting for an eviction moratorium helped get that extended; Bowman's GNDPS has led to a surge in activism pressuring local school districts and cities to do the same; and of course, policies like the BPRA are law now. i don't know what voting Jill Stein in 2016 or even Howie Hawkins in 2020 did (and i love Howie, he's a cool guy).
Believe me, I've got no qualms with you, in this thread or elsewhere. I upvoted several of your comments here because insofar as I can tell, you are right. I'm not defending the Greens in this thread and never have. I do not care for them.
But I'm sure you've seen as I have the negative reactions that so frequently occur from so many when Harris' platform or campaign are criticized. Anytime anyone tries to suggest that she is doing a terrible job of appealing to anyone left-of-center, all while playing ads that play up conservative talking points, it feels as though a barrage of comments is immediately launched to decry it. This is and has been extremely frustrating for me to constantly see, hence why I push back so much on it in this thread.
And I can probably guess as to the feelings that motivate this; people quite possibly fear the criticism will undermine the election's odds of not going towards a fascist. But this is still misplaced blame. If the Democrats lose this election, it'll be their fault, not the fault of people like Flash Mob.