this post was submitted on 19 Oct 2024
112 points (97.5% liked)

politics

19107 readers
3309 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] Boddhisatva@lemmy.world 28 points 1 month ago (8 children)

This is stupid. How about you make a play for disenchanted progressives who actually could be convinced to vote for you? Republicans are not going to vote for Harris in any great numbers. The evidence is in the fact that every republican who has come out to support Harris is retired from politic life either by choice or by having been voted out by the rabid faction that makes up the vast bulk of the republican base. Republican voters make up about 30% of eligible voters and democrats make up another ~30%. How about you go after the 40% that sit between the two groups by making it worth their while to get off the couch and go vote?

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 30 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

The thing is progressive policy gets the votes Harris is chasing here too

When Obama flipped red ststaes in 08 it wasn't because progressives turned out, because progressives always turn out.

He flipped red states by flipping moderate voters with progressive policy.

While moderates have favored the Democratic candidate in each of the past five elections, Barack Obama gained the support of more voters in the ideological “middle” than did either John Kerry or Al Gore before him. He won at least half the votes of independents (52% vs. 49% for Kerry), suburban voters (50% vs. 47% for Kerry), Catholics (54% vs. 47% for Kerry), and other key swing groups in the electorate.

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2008/11/05/inside-obamas-sweeping-victory/

And that's even with the PUMA movement Clinton's campaign started to get Dems to vote for Kerry.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_United_Means_Action

Even if we lose some votes, progressive policy is a net gain.

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 4 points 1 month ago (2 children)

because progressives always turn out.

Do they? I thought they were one of the more unreliable demographics.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago

Nope, feel free to luck up any exit polling

[–] AbidanYre@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

President Bernie Sanders tends to agree with you.

The thing is progressive policy gets the votes Harris is chasing here too
He flipped red states by flipping moderate voters with progressive policy.

I suspect this worked in part because he tailored his policy and his messaging in the battleground states, specifically so his policy would appeal to the swing voters there. (Another part is that progressive policy is just that good, naturally.)

So this may work again for Harris, but the messaging has to be done in a tailored way.

Even if we lose some votes, progressive policy is a net gain.

That's the fear - that an untailored, or badly or wrongly tailored, policy might cause more damage - a net loss of votes in the battleground states overall, where we can't really afford that loss.

[–] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 12 points 1 month ago (1 children)

How about you go after the 40% that sit between the two groups by making it worth their while to get off the couch and go vote?

They can't or won't because their bread is buttered by the same people buttering the bread of Republicans: rich donors and SuperPACs.

[–] Boddhisatva@lemmy.world 12 points 1 month ago (2 children)

They don't honestly need that butter. They need to wake up and realize that there are enough small dollar donors out there to make up for any big dollar donors they lose. Look at how much Bernie Sanders raked in from small donors by courting progressives.

[–] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

They don't want to have to put in the work. They want that easy money. DC is like a fucking casino and nobody wants the money-train to end.

Actually standing up for constituents takes the real work of politics. Just shrugging and doing whatever Bezos told you for a cool half a mill is so much easier.

Half the time legislation is literally actually written by lobbyists, not legislators. They don't even have to write the bill! The work is done for them! Voters, on the other hand, will expect results!

[–] Boddhisatva@lemmy.world 13 points 1 month ago (1 children)

...for a cool half a mill

Oh, you sweet summer child. They are so very much cheaper than that. Most of the pols in DC can be bought for tens of thousands or even just thousands of dollars. No need to get into six figures.

[–] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I actually aimed low in respect to what I was speaking about, which is stuff like SuperPACs.

https://www.axios.com/2024/10/16/musk-trump-donation-america-pac-republican-mega-donor

Musk gave Trump $75 million in one go because laws don't apply to the rich.

The rest of us have real legal limits on what we can give.

[–] AbidanYre@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

And if those Bernie dollars had turned into votes maybe she'd be going after them. Also, Bernie endorsed her.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/bernie-sanders-ends-holdout-and-endorses-kamala-harris-for-president/ar-BB1qKBPw

[–] Rapidcreek@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago (1 children)

All the "progressives" in Congress endorsed her. Guess that's not enough, eh?

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 9 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Why wouldn't they?

And endorsement doesn't mean someone has zero room for improvement and they agree on everything.

It just means they're the best available option

When Dick Cheney endorsed Kamala, did you think they agree on everything?

[–] AmidFuror@fedia.io 7 points 1 month ago

The evidence is in the fact that every republican who has come out to support Harris is retired from politic life either by choice or by having been voted out by the rabid faction that makes up the vast bulk of the republican base.

Your evidence shows that Republicans whose careers no longer depend on Trump are the ones who can be convinced to turn on him. The same is true of many (formerly) Republican voters.

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago (2 children)

This is stupid. How about you make a play for disenchanted progressives who actually could be convinced to vote for you?

Democrats would rather lose democracy forever than treat progressives like constituents with agency.

[–] AmidFuror@fedia.io 3 points 1 month ago

That's just the argument you constantly complain about turned on its head.

[–] Boddhisatva@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago

I would very much like to argue with you, but I have nothing to support such an argument. :(

[–] Draedron@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Progressives who dont vote for Harris are even dumber than Republicans. Not sure if talking to them would help since they would need to stop focussing on breathing just to listen to you.

[–] Boddhisatva@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago

There are plenty of people in the area between the two extremes who support progressive policies, while not considering themselves progressives, but are not sufficiently motivated to bother voting because neither candidate is explicitly supporting those policies. Those are the votes that are available. Those are the people she should be convincing, not low hanging republican fruit.

[–] Soulg@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 month ago

Because progressives are probably smart enough to know why they need to vote for Harris instead of letting fascism keep them on their couch

Well, it's not this straightforward. I'm not sure where you got your numbers and percentages from, but working on the assumption that they are correct:

It also matters where the votes come from. If the remaining 40% is all clustered in California and New York, and they all are convinced to go out and vote, and also vote blue, that doesn't have an effect on the outcome.

Why? Electoral College.

See this chart, showing that split ticket voting (in particular, folks who voted all Republican EXCEPT for the President, where they voted Biden) was about 4% out of everyone who voted in 2020: https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2020/10/PP_2020.10.21_split-icket-voting_0-01.png

Also, look at the small margins that Biden won on the swing states according to https://www.npr.org/2020/12/02/940689086/narrow-wins-in-these-key-states-powered-biden-to-the-presidency. So what this could mean, assuming that the 4% holds generally, is that the 4% difference cause by split ticket voting is greater than the margin that Biden won in those swing states. So without winning those folks - those moderate Republicans - over, the Dems lose the Electoral College and thus the Presidency.