this post was submitted on 22 Oct 2024
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[–] nanook@friendica.eskimo.com -2 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

@Samueru @davel Is there something about people from lemmy.ml that makes them only capable of insults as opposed to rational discussions?

[–] Samueru@lemmy.ml 2 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

What rational discussion is to be had when one country is clearly annexing another since 2014 lmao?

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 10 points 3 weeks ago

The US currently occupies a larger percentage of Syria than Russia is of Ukraine, but do go on.

[–] nanook@friendica.eskimo.com 2 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

@Samueru The history goes back way before 2014 and your summation of the situation is inaccurate.

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 5 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)
[–] LarmyOfLone@lemm.ee 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

There is also a recent academic book (by an Ukrainian academic) about the maidan massacre: The Maidan Massacre in Ukraine: The Mass Killing that Changed the World | SpringerLink

Evidence shows beyond a reasonable doubt the far right / oligarchs were behind the mass killing of over 100 people and blame it on the government in a false flag operation. But people in the west will never hear of this. And if they hear they will dismiss it as conspiracy theory or propaganda. So it's really no wonder people like linus react like this.

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 3 points 3 weeks ago

One has to really go out of one’s way to hear it, because corporate media aren’t going to tell it to us, until perhaps twenty or more years from now, when it no longer matters.

[–] nanook@friendica.eskimo.com 3 points 3 weeks ago

@Samueru I find it humorous that someone would downvote me for suggesting that history goes back more than a decade. Guess they are less than ten years old and think their parents appeared out of nowhere when they were born.

[–] Samueru@lemmy.ml -3 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Yes it goes back to Holodomor and how russia has always treated ukranians as second class citizens.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 11 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

During the 1932 Holodomor Famine, the USSR sent aid to affected regions in an attempt to alleviate the famine. According to Mark Tauger in his article, The 1932 Harvest and the Famine of 1933:

While the leadership did not stop exports, they did try to alleviate the famine. A 25 February 1933 Central Committee decree allotted seed loans of 320,000 tons to Ukraine and 240,000 tons to the northern Caucasus. Seed loans were also made to the Lower Volga and may have been made to other regions as well. Kul'chyts'kyy cites Ukrainian party archives showing that total aid to Ukraine by April 1933 actually exceeded 560,000 tons, including more than 80,000 tons of food

Some bring up massive grain exports during the famine to show that the Soviet Union exported food while Ukraine starved. This is fallacious for a number of reasons, but most importantly of all the amount of aid that was sent to Ukraine alone actually exceeded the amount that was exported at the time.

Aid to Ukraine alone was 60 percent greater than the amount exported during the same period. Total aid to famine regions was more than double exports for the first half of 1933.

According to Tauger, the reason why more aid was not provided was because of the low harvest

It appears to have been another consequence of the low 1932 harvest that more aid was not provided: After the low 1931, 1934, and 1936 harvests procured grain was transferred back to peasants at the expense of exports.

Tauger is not a communist, and ultimately this specific article takes the view that the low harvest was caused by collectivization (he factors in the natural causes of the famine in later articles, based on how he completely neglects to mention weather in this article at all its clear that his position shifted over the years). However, the Soviets really did try to alleviate the famine as best as they could. Maybe spend some time learning a bit of history instead of flaunting your ignorance in public.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/2500600