this post was submitted on 14 Nov 2024
436 points (97.4% liked)

politics

19091 readers
3792 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 0 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

The Democratic Party is the party progressives and socialists are going to want to co-opt with a populist candidate. Like Bernie tried to do and Trump did to the Republicans.

This is the key part I recommend you read.

I read it. Democrats will keep playing the left for fools and moving to the right, no matter what happens.

Also, this is off topic, but Harris did pledge to end the war. It was in the news. She called for a ceasefire at least three times.

BIDEN called for a ceasefire. With the same complete lack of conviction. There was no daylight between her and Biden on Netanyahu's genocide.

If you care about the Palestinians, then voting for the party that wants to end the war is more useful than allowing the party that wants Israel to finish the job to take power.

I voted for Harris and the election is over. That doesn't mean I'm going to pretend that she wasn't as committed to Netanyahu's genocide as Biden was.

[–] ToastedPlanet@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

I read it. Democrats will keep playing the left for fools and moving to the right, no matter what happens.

No Bernie's campaign and Warren's campaign drove Biden to the left on a whole host of issues, including labor unions.

There was no daylight between her and Biden on Netanyahu’s genocide.

Don't lie.

This comment said it best and lists calls for a ceasefire from Harris.

https://lemmy.world/comment/13069715

She’s taken a stance, multiple times. The left doesn’t want to hear it.

March - https://www.npr.org/2024/03/04/1234822836/kamala-harris-benny-gantz-gaza-cease-fire-israel-hamas

July - https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/25/harris-netanyahu-israel-cease-fire-00171315

September - https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/harris-trump-presidential-debate-election-2024/card/harris-calls-for-ceasefire-in-gaza-while-trump-claims-she-hates-israel--isokhfqmy6EgRGrUOSuK

Harris promised to do everything in her power to end the war in Gaza.

“This year has been difficult, given the scale of death and destruction in Gaza and given the civilian casualties and displacement in Lebanon, it is devastating. And as president, I will do everything in my power to end the war in Gaza, to bring home the hostages, end the suffering in Gaza, ensure Israel is secure, and ensure the Palestinian people can realise their right to dignity, freedom, security and self-determination,” Harris said to applause during a rally in East Lansing city of Michigan, home to 200,000 Arab Americans.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/11/4/harris-says-will-end-gaza-war-in-final-election-appeal-to-arab-americans

Unlike Biden, Harris was not a life long Zionist.

When Joe Biden met with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his war cabinet during his visit to Israel, the U.S. president assured them: “I don’t believe you have to be a Jew to be a Zionist, and I am a Zionist.”

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/i-am-zionist-how-joe-bidens-lifelong-bond-with-israel-shapes-war-policy-2023-10-21/

Harris wasn't perfect. And that was simply not good enough for some people who didn't want to risk their hands getting dirty. Even if it meant the Palestinians becoming the cost of doing business.

I voted for Harris and the election is over. That doesn’t mean I’m going to pretend that she wasn’t as committed to Netanyahu’s genocide as Biden was.

Good for you. I appreciate it. No need to spread propaganda though.

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 0 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Don’t lie.

I'm not. Biden pretended to want a ceasefire just like Harris did. There was NO daylight between the two. None. She presented NO policy differences on Gaza from Biden. Not one.

And I no longer trust promises without policy behind them. Democrats are great at promising shit they have no intention of doing and then gleefully announcing that their hands are tied.

[–] ToastedPlanet@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

I’m not.

You are. I even gave the receipts. They were different, but people on the left didn't want to hear it.

Democrats are great at promising shit they have no intention of doing and then gleefully announcing that their hands are tied.

That's what a refusal to remove the filibuster and a razor thin majority will do. Manchin and Sinema were devastatingly effective in their obstruction. That's what a systemic issue can do in a nutshell. With the Senate, a tiny minority can overturn the will of the majority. Our refusal to fix it is part of how we got here. And things will continue to get worse if we don't take steps to fix it.

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 1 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

You are. I even gave the receipts. They were different, but people on the left didn’t want to hear it.

You gave examples of worthless political vaguery. There was no policy difference between Harris and Biden on the genocide you're going to bat for.

That’s what a refusal to remove the filibuster and a razor thin majority will do.

It does not matter how big a majority Democrats get. They find the no votes. It's how they killed the public option when they had a supermajority.

Manchin and Sinema were devastatingly effective in their obstruction.

They were successful at doing the party's work. There are always just enough Manchins.

[–] ToastedPlanet@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

There was no policy difference between Harris and Biden on the genocide

The policy difference was Harris wants to end the war.

you’re going to bat for.

I want people to live free or die trying. You want to be morally pure.

It does not matter how big a majority Democrats get. They find the no votes. It’s how they killed the public option when they had a supermajority.

They managed to get to exactly 60 votes with independents twice. That's how Joe Lieberman was able to kill the public option by threatening a filibuster. He fits the white moderate description to a T. It wouldn't fair to do it without the Republicans. The Democrats are neoliberals, institutionalists. It only took one vote to kill the public option. They of course weren't willing to enact systemic change to get results. I am aware. This is what I'm arguing.

Our refusal to fix it is part of how we got here. And things will continue to get worse if we don’t take steps to fix it.

They were successful at doing the party’s work. There are always just enough Manchins.

Neat conspiracy theory. Manchin owns a coal company. Sinema was bought. The Democratic Party had to work around the interests of elites, which is another reason why we need wealth redistribution.

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 0 points 1 hour ago

The policy difference was Harris wants to end the war.

"I want to do something" isn't a policy. "Condition weapons sales" is. "Withhold weapons sales" is. "Continue selling weapons no matter what Netanyahu does" was the policy of both Biden and Harris.

I want people to live free or die trying.

The Democratic Party does not agree with this.

They managed to get to exactly 60 votes with independents twice. That’s how Joe Lieberman was able to kill the public option by threatening a filibuster. He fits the white moderate description to a T.

Democrats had the numbers. Lieberman didn't do it alone. He had the help of Ben Nelson among others.

The Democrats are neoliberals, institutionalists. It only took one vote to kill the public option.

If Lieberman changed his vote, they would have found another.

They of course weren’t willing to enact systemic change to get results. I am aware. This is what I’m arguing.

Our refusal to fix it is part of how we got here. And things will continue to get worse if we don’t take steps to fix it.

With the leverage you keep pretending we have. How do we exercise this phantom leverage? Democrats' unwillingness to listen is how we got here.

Neat conspiracy theory. Manchin owns a coal company. Sinema was bought. The Democratic Party had to work around the interests of elites, which is another reason why we need wealth redistribution.

Democrats don't work around the interests of their owners. They work for them. Wealth redistribution won't happen as long as the Democratic Party is run by corporate shit. And vague references to leverage that we can only somehow exercise by unquestioningly getting behind corporate shit only serves corporate shit.