this post was submitted on 21 Sep 2023
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After a deep dive of research into ADB and reading about the extended mouse protocol, i relent that yes Apple did support multiple mouse buttons for a long time.
However, also seeing that Apple's own first party multi-button mouse that supported right clicking only came out in 2005... your point is just like saying that old cars with 8-track playes supports Spotify cause i have my phone auxed into a converter.
So, factually, you're correct. But his point still stands.
That analogy is terrible. You could plugin a 2 button mouse and clicking the 2nd button gave you contextual menus. You’re just being dishonest. There was no converter necessary.
I'm not being dishonest.
Apple never supplied you the mouse, it was hardware that you bought separately, just like the 8-track to Aux converter in my analogy. Apple only relented to providing you a mouse that supports 2 button clicks in 2005. That's something Microsoft has provided since day 1 which is why "they're late to the party". It also emphasizes how apple wants to limit it's user's experience despite their machine's capabilities.
I'm pretty sure that meets the requirements for the original point.
You are, though. You only said two things that I pointed out were both wrong.
First you said that Macs didn’t have right click until OSX in 2001. That’s wrong no matter which way you want to spin it. Macs as machines supported it before 2001. Apple didn’t include a mouse with a 2nd button until 2005 (and it wasn’t even a second button, it was a multi-touch mouse).
Then you just said that Microsoft provided something. Microsoft didn’t make computers back then. They never bundled any mice with any software so you’re wrong on that count too.
The argument was never about whether Apple supplied a mouse. You’re being dishonest and you won’t even fess up when called out. So… more dishonesty.
I already admitted that you were correct about Apple supporting a multi-button mouse. What you're missing us the fact that they didn't want you to have one until 2005. They made you buy a non brand mouse to do the job.
Microsoft made their first mouse in 1983 to go with Word, and it had 2 buttons. Go back even further and Xerox had one with 3 buttons in 1981.
The point stands that Apple purposefully chose to not bundle a multi-button mouse until 2005 becasue they didn't respect their user base. Their walled garden approach to computers and software is great for people who are just need a PC or a Phone. But historically their not for developers or power users.
More dishonesty. You had to buy the Microsoft mouse separate from any computer purchase just like you would have had to for a Mac. Apple didn’t bundle a mouse with a secondary button because their User Interface Guidelines explicitly state that user functions should not be hidden behind non-UI interactions and that all commands should be accessible by a primary click.
It has nothing to do with a walled garden. You’re wrong and now you just sound ignorant.
Look man, i get that you're probably a diehard Apple fanboy, but you're really missing the point.
Fact 1 - Microsoft openly supported a multi-button mouse and offered it to you. PCs that were budled with Microsoft windows came with a 2 button mouse. They trusted their users to understand how it worked.
Fact 2 - Apple supported mutli-button mice but refused to bundle it with their computers until 2005 because they didn't trust that users were smart enough to use it.
These 2 facts lead back to the original point. That PC makers trusted their users were smart enough, and Apple didn't. That Apple only relented when they were proven wrong that people could very easily use and understand a multi-button mouse. That they were late to the party to bundle it with their computers.
Prove me wrong on either if the 2 facts.
And the "walled garden" is an ethos which has dictated all of Apples choices. They want to have full control over what us done on their hardware and software. It has merit to our conversation.
And honestly, your arguments will never change the fact that Apple's approach to hardware and software has been a deterrent to user for decades.
Alright, I’m out. You’re a liar and are moving the goalposts of the original discussion. I don’t engage with liars. Worse yet, you attack anyone who proves you wrong as a fanboy. There’s no point in continuing with rude, dishonest people.
Oh get over yourself. You're giving up because you have no more argument. You realized you lost so now you're butt hurt about the whole thing.
I didn't insult you or Apple fanboys. I pointed out clearly obvious things, relented when you proved yourself correct, and showed how OP meant his point by using facts.
No. I’m ending this because you’re a liar and are dishonest. Why would anyone continue talking to someone discussing anything in bad faith. The fact that you’re even calling it “giving up” proves you’re a liar.
Where am i being dishonest?