this post was submitted on 01 Apr 2025
215 points (88.0% liked)

Europe

5136 readers
2019 users here now

News and information from Europe 🇪🇺

(Current banner: La Mancha, Spain. Feel free to post submissions for banner images.)

Rules (2024-08-30)

  1. This is an English-language community. Comments should be in English. Posts can link to non-English news sources when providing a full-text translation in the post description. Automated translations are fine, as long as they don't overly distort the content.
  2. No links to misinformation or commercial advertising. When you post outdated/historic articles, add the year of publication to the post title. Infographics must include a source and a year of creation; if possible, also provide a link to the source.
  3. Be kind to each other, and argue in good faith. Don't post direct insults nor disrespectful and condescending comments. Don't troll nor incite hatred. Don't look for novel argumentation strategies at Wikipedia's List of fallacies.
  4. No bigotry, sexism, racism, antisemitism, dehumanization of minorities, or glorification of National Socialism.
  5. Be the signal, not the noise: Strive to post insightful comments. Add "/s" when you're being sarcastic (and don't use it to break rule no. 3).
  6. If you link to paywalled information, please provide also a link to a freely available archived version. Alternatively, try to find a different source.
  7. Light-hearted content, memes, and posts about your European everyday belong in !yurop@lemm.ee. (They're cool, you should subscribe there too!)
  8. Don't evade bans. If we notice ban evasion, that will result in a permanent ban for all the accounts we can associate with you.
  9. No posts linking to speculative reporting about ongoing events with unclear backgrounds. Please wait at least 12 hours. (E.g., do not post breathless reporting on an ongoing terror attack.)

(This list may get expanded when necessary.)

We will use some leeway to decide whether to remove a comment.

If need be, there are also bans: 3 days for lighter offenses, 14 days for bigger offenses, and permanent bans for people who don't show any willingness to participate productively. If we think the ban reason is obvious, we may not specifically write to you.

If you want to protest a removal or ban, feel free to write privately to the mods: @federalreverse@feddit.org, @poVoq@slrpnk.net, or @anzo@programming.dev.

founded 9 months ago
MODERATORS
federalreverse@feddit.org
poVoq@slrpnk.net
anzo@programming.dev
215
Germany Turns to U.S. Playbook: Deportations Target Gaza War Protesters (theintercept.com)
submitted 3 days ago by IndustryStandard@lemmy.world to c/europe@feddit.org
101 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Berlin’s immigration authorities are moving to deport four young foreign residents on allegations related to participation in protests against Israel’s war on Gaza, an unprecedented move that raises serious concerns over civil liberties in Germany.

The deportation orders, issued under German migration law, were made amid political pressure and over internal objections from the head of the state of Berlin’s immigration agency.

The internal strife arose because three of those targeted for deportation are citizens of European Union member states who normally enjoy freedom of movement between E.U. countries. None of the four has been convicted of any crimes.

“What we’re seeing here is straight out of the far right’s playbook,” said Alexander Gorski, a lawyer representing two of the protesters. “You can see it in the U.S. and Germany, too: Political dissent is silenced by targeting the migration status of protesters.”

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] Markie84@feddit.org 14 points 2 days ago (4 children)

The article is borderline. Because it suggests that the people would ONLY be deported because they protested. But, as it says in the article, they SHOULD be deported because they have committed criminal offences. And criminal offences are not just murders or rapes.

And yes, this is exactly what has been demanded for months: Foreign offenders should be deported more quickly and less ruthlessly. Especially if they come from safe countries. Here, for example, Ireland. The fact that these offences were committed in connection with protests doesn't provide any protection, and I find it extremely sensational to even begin to compare this with what is happening in the USA.

[–] MissingInteger@lemm.ee 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

“As a trans person, the idea of going back to the U.S. right now feels really scary.”

Right, "safe country".

[–] IndustryStandard@lemmy.world 26 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Did you read the same article?

None of the four has been convicted of any crimes.

Each of the four protesters faces separate allegations from the authorities, all of which are sourced from police files and tied to pro-Palestine actions in Berlin.

The only event that tied the four cases together was the allegation that the protesters participated in the university occupation, which involved property damage, and alleged obstruction of an arrest — a so-called de-arrest aimed at blocking a fellow protesters’ detention. None of the protesters are accused of any particular acts of vandalism or the de-arrest at the university. Instead, the deportation order cites the suspicion that they took part in a coordinated group action. (The Free University told The Intercept it had no knowledge of the deportation orders.)

All four are accused, without evidence, of supporting Hamas, a group Germany has designated as a terrorist organization.

All four have, for the meantime, been ordered to leave Germany by April 21, 2025, or face forcible deportation.

[–] federalreverse@feddit.org 10 points 2 days ago (1 children)

this is exactly what has been demanded for months

Demanded by whom exactly? And if you say SPD, CxU, and FDP, please look a bit deeper where that demand came from originally.

[–] Markie84@feddit.org 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Demanded by whom exactly

Many people from **all **political spectrum, especially after attacks like the one just before the last general election.

[–] federalreverse@feddit.org 12 points 2 days ago (1 children)

The call for deportations comes from exactly one extreme side of political world views. The fact that a socially and financially(!) disastrous populist bullshit "solution" like deportations seeped so far into the German mainstream is at best worrying.

[–] Quittenbrot@feddit.org -3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

The call for deportations comes from exactly one extreme side of political world views.

While I agree with you that especially the AfD is keen on deportations in a scale as big as possible, wouldn't you agree that a system that allows for - please excuse the technical terms - inflow must also have a mechanism of outflow? I.e. deportations in itself are a 'necessary evil'?

[–] federalreverse@feddit.org 9 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

I do think we'd do well to question whether a deportation system makes sense overall. To which I am not going to be able to produce a definitive answer here. But as a society we should absolutely try to look at the negatives that deportations bring with themselves vs. e.g. prison sentences for actual offenders and better social and integration services. Instead, our political discourse has moved toward enabling mass deportations and toward making it impossible to fight deportations.

Also, do remember, that without immigration, all Western societies would be shrinking fast, endangering social systems built on society-wide contribution.

[–] Quittenbrot@feddit.org 0 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I do think we’d do well to question whether a deportation system makes sense overall.

To regularly question the applied mechanisms in our society is something I'd also agree to. Also, I acknowledge the hardships deportations can impose, hence I think it is a tool that should only be used with consideration and absolutely not in the way e.g. the AfD wants to use it.

I also absolutely agree with you that we are dependent on immigration and also immensely benefit from it. But I also think that in order for something like our immigration system to retain the trust of the people and to function properly, it must have the possibility to be a 'breathing' system instead of a one way-only. That means also having the tool to have people leave again. Trying to abolish the rights to hospitality for a host entirely will only see the people flock to those parties that seek to detonate the migration system as a whole.

And I guess we both agree that this would be the worst outcome of all.

[–] federalreverse@feddit.org 5 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

We can agree on the final sentence. However, I find it exceedingly unlikely that we'll arrive anywhere than at a terrible outcome if we continue compromising on both human rights-based asylum as well as on educational/professional migration. The way to remove irrational and inhumane sentiments from political discourse cannot be giving in to irrational demands gradually. The "center of the political spectrum" is not a place to stand on, it's always shifting position, if you bind yourself to that, so are you. Political positions should instead be derived from scientific observation of reality and should then optimize for good outcomes for the largest number of people.

[–] Quittenbrot@feddit.org -2 points 2 days ago

if we continue compromising on both human rights-based asylum as well as on educational/professional migration.

Having the means of deporting isn't what I would call compromising both of these. Especially in the case at hand, where it isn't about human rights-based asylum at all.

cannot be giving in to irrational demands gradually.

I wouldn't call having the means of deporting irrational either. It also isn't anything new, introduced under the pressure of the AfD for example, but always been a part of the asylum mechanisms that states reserved the opportunity to restrict it. Therefore, instead of fundamentally opposing something that always existed, I'd hence rather ensure that this restriction is protected from abuse.

[–] Quittenbrot@feddit.org -3 points 2 days ago

The article is borderline.

Yes, there is a very apparent spin. There is much emphasis on the facts that "almost none" of the allegations have been brought before a criminal court and no-one of them has been convicted, while only a few lines earlier/later also stating that a conviction is not needed for a deportation under German migration law (but it also isn't a free-for-all for the state and that proportionality has to be observed!).

Hence, should the state decide to deport them, this is something they would do instead of charging them before court.

Some of the allegations are minor. Two, for example, are accused of calling a police officer “fascist” — insulting an officer, which is a crime.

Well, calling a member of the German state apparatus a "fascist" is not only - for obvious reasons - a very dumb idea but also something I - and especially them - wouldn't necessarily consider "minor". Also, it is, despite long existing layman's opinions, not a crime to insult an officer, but to insult a person. It is as punishable insulting an officer as anybody else.