this post was submitted on 03 Jun 2025
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Yes, "inevitably." What the fuck do you think is going to happen when one side is "A declining status quo that we refuse to fix as it gets worse and worse," and the other is, "Let's see what's behind door #2! (hint: It's fascism!)"
Inevitably people will grow dissatisfied with the status quo, and look for any alternative. Inevitably. 100% chance. What part of that is so hard to understand?
This is actually how it goes. Capitalism in Decline leads to some kind of fascism. Just think in terms of the interest of the capitalist class and how they guide the herd. Liberals are neoliberals and neoliberals are fascist. America is an imperialist, empire, and Nazis are the useful idiots of empire. You know, you could look at it like the Imperial Boomerang. It's not like we've changed. It's just the veil's been removed and the ruling elite is dealing with blowback as they continue to march forward towards their selfish goals. We are just keeping it real nowadays, living in the world of the lowest common denominator. First world nations usually turn towards fascism while countries that are more collectivist culturally turn to socialism. And we gotta go fash to the extreme before eventually anything changes because the herd does not recognize what they're stepping into. The herd does not know where it came from, where it's going, so it's only through collective suffering that anything will ever change, and it might even take a lifetime.
Why so aggressive? I interpreted the post as being about liberalism in general, not the two current US parties.
So if "the status quo" inevitably leads to fascism, the only way to avoid fascism would be a society that is in constant change? Well, for one thing, every society is in constant change unless you install some kind of religious dogmatic dictatorship, and even those break after some time under the stress of sociological pressures.
Fascism, or things very much like it, happen whenever you let fear mongering powerhungry fools who deny reality in favor of some kind of nostalgia infused "greater" image of your society get away with their bullshit.
Human leadership leads to fascism at some point, because humans love their fears and their tribal behavior.
The liberal status quo inevitably leads to fascism. This shit doesn't happen in Cuba, Vietnam, or China because they dont let capitalism stop them from addressing societal problems.
Well you could say they start with an authoritarian regime that doesn't do well with things like human rights to begin with if they don't go to fascism it's because they have a system that has, for a large part, most of the same downsides.
lmao talking about human rights when we have the highest prison population in the world. Have you ever felt like you had influence on the state's actions? The average cuban has, in their lifetime, been able to help write their own constitution, and then vote for it by referendum. The average Chinese feels their government represents their interests.
We, do not. I'm not American. The US to me is an absurd place where wealth gets way too much power and respect.
Society is constantly changing, yes. The problem is our institutions have not kept up.
A given institution (or complex of institutions) incentivize a certain set of behaviors. Not everyone adopts those behaviors, but enough do that the effect accumulates. Eventually something will break, some set of behavioral interactions start negatively interacting with the system (like, say, a for-profit healthcare system that incentivizes not treating the sick and wounded).
In a functioning system, this would be where you study what happened, and use what you've learned about the problem to try adapt the institution. This will create a new set of incentives for a new set of behaviors... and inevitably a new problem will grow out of it and the process starts over again.
I can't speak for other places, but in the US that is very much NOT what happens. Our status quo is stagnant. We've had the same problems for decades now. That is what creates fertile ground for fascism - when the guy saying, "We'll burn the rot and go back to when it was better" sounds more appealing than, "Nothing will fundamentally change".
Yes, problem is that there often is gradual change that is not seen enough. I don't live in the US, the healthcare system there that bleeds the state and the population spectacularly is incomprehensible to me. I don't understand how there is not a new Nintendo character doing his thing every week, given the cruelty combined with the amount of desperate people who have guns.
I live in a country in the EU that has institutions that rather constantly get updated and change to try and keep up with the needs of society (and the need for politicians to show how useful they are).
The constant change is somewhat exhausting to be honest as the agency where you apply for something today might not exist next year, the requirements for applying for the same thing might be different next month....
Yet even here right wing gains every election because they present a world view with simple solutions to complex problems.
No, that doesn't follow at all from what I said. The present, declining status quo is leading towards people losing faith in it, and in the present conditions, the far right are the only ones capable of offering the convincing appearance of an alternative. Not every status quo is declining, in some cases, it may be possible to address such decline, and in other cases, the left is able to present a realistic alternative to both the right and the status quo, and so the rise of fascism would no longer be an inevitability - if there are more doors than door #2, people may pick another door.
No, Fascism is not some random aberration, it is capitalism's rational solution the problem of the tendency of the rate of profit to fall. When there is no room for the economy to grow, society is divided into an gradually shrinking in group and an ever expanding out group, by seizing the assets of the out group and feeding them into the in group, artificial growth can be maintained, for a time. A more permanent and viable solution is to nationalize developed industries, removing the profit motive once it is no longer useful, that is, socialism.
This is the fundamental difference in worldviews between liberals and leftists regarding the present situation. Liberals see Trump and the alt-right as this sort of bizarre fluke that seemingly came out of nowhere, and may well return to nowhere just as spontaneously. Leftists actually study the material reasons that caused them to come into political relevance, and thereby understand that even if you cut the weeds, the roots are still there and will regrow, that the material reasons that created them in the first place must be addressed.
Congrats, you've discovered Maoist continuous revolution theory.
Almost ready for that great leap forward!