Signal had something good when it could simply be your default messaging app on your phone, and it'd transparently send either encrypted messages, or plain-text SMS. Now that they've removed SMS, they've just turned into a worse Whatsapp (because nobody is on it). Network effects are important in messaging apps.

[–] mossy_capivara@midwest.social 18 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Trust me I know, having my whole family try it out and then have them pull that later was a punch in the face

[–] Encode1307@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago

Same here. It's pretty frustrating.

[–] sarsaparilyptus@discuss.online 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Was that the punch in the face, or was it all the morons intentionally misinterpreting this argument and saying "but why would u want to send nonsecure messages are you aware SMS isn't secure it's like so insecure to send SMS bro it's not secure it's like literally a security risk bro SMS isn't secure at all and also are you aware SMS security is poor"

[–] dismalnow@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Not doubting that pushy idiots are going to pushy idiot, but I think you've strawmanned the actual reason hard enough.

Most people who want it back don't need, want, or understand why secure messaging exists.

Here's the simple facts:

SMS is not secure, or private.
Signal is for secure, private comms.

As mildly inconvenient as it is, Signal explained their reasoning in great detail, and I happen to agree: There should never have been an insecure option on a secure messaging app.

[–] ebc@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Well, I happen to disagree. I'm a privacy-conscious person, but I'm not an activist. Most of my contacts in real life (i.e the people I need a messaging app to talk to) are non-technical, and not really privacy-conscious. They're not going to install a different app just to talk to me. The big draw of TextSecure (before it became Signal) was that they could just set that as their default SMS app, and it'd magically start to send encrypted messages if the other end was also using TextSecure, and they had to change exactly 0 of their habits.

I guess it depends on how you view it:

Move as many people as possible over to encrypted comms with the least friction possible, or
Provide a niche secure messaging platform for niche activists with niche needs.

I thought the goal was 1, but turns out it was 2. All my contacts are now back to Facebook Messenger...

[–] poop@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It sounds like you're slightly mis-remembering this oft-cited Hacker News comment from Moxie from 2015. I'm going to quote the main bit here because honestly a lot of people in this thread could stand to think about it:

If we were going to rank our priorities, they would be in this order:

Make mass surveillance impossible.

Stop targeted attacks against crypto nerds.

It's not that we don't find #2 laudable, but optimizing for #1 takes precedence when we're making decisions.

[–] ebc@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 year ago

I wasn't actually quoting this, but yeah, I think that's the point. Supporting SMS was helping adoption by promoting a seamless transition for users. Dropping it feels like prioritizing #2 to me. (All this comment thread about opsec, compartimentalization, activism, etc is really about #2, IMO)

[–] ChaosSauce@wizanons.dev 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Totally agree. Good opsec is all about building good habits. Having 1 app for secure and a different app for normal creates a healthy compartmentalization in the mind for ease of building and maintaining habits.

[–] dismalnow@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago

Indeed.

It's a very basic trade that it seems few understand. You MUST trade a bit of convenience to increase your security, or mistakes will happen.

[–] sarsaparilyptus@discuss.online -1 points 1 year ago

Question: are you missing the point deliberately, or is it genuine obliviousness?

[–] brill@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

My family still uses it vs texting. We like the video calls as well. :)

[–] NENathaniel@lemmy.film 2 points 1 year ago

I've just kinda made anyone I message regularly message me on Signal or Telegram. Fuck Meta 🤷

[–] Steve@compuverse.uk 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

This always struck me as strange thinking.
Are most people really unable to understand and use different messengers with different contexts and groups?

Honestly I use a few myself. My job has Tiger Connect. I use Signal with all my family and friends. Then I use SMS for some companies automatic notifications. It's pretty simple and easy.

[–] ebc@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Well, yes. But when all your friends are already on Facebook Messenger, good luck getting them to install Signal only to talk with you. Network effects are important; a messaging app has no use when you have nobody to message on the app. Supporting SMS was taking advantage of its network effect, and I don't think their network was big enough to be self-sustaining for most users (it wasn't in my case, my only contact in there is my wife).

[–] gizzle@reddthat.com 1 points 1 year ago

If a friend doesn't care about you enough to perform the 1 minute task of installing signal they're not worth your time

[–] Steve@compuverse.uk 1 points 1 year ago

Convincing people to leave Facebook Messenger isn't that hard. Just let them know Zukerberg and everyone at Facebook can see everything they send.

It is easier with a whole group of friends. If none of your friends known each other, you should work on that for other reasons. Groups of friends are better in general.

[–] DarkThoughts@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

I don't see the issue? Just use your native messenger for SMS. Why does it need to be part of Signal? It just makes things convoluted and confusing to have an unsecure messaging service inside an otherwise secure messaging app.