this post was submitted on 07 Oct 2025
43 points (75.9% liked)
Progressive Politics
3364 readers
1502 users here now
Welcome to Progressive Politics! A place for news updates and political discussion from a left perspective. Conservatives and centrists are welcome just try and keep it civil :)
(Sidebar still a work in progress post recommendations if you have them such as reading lists)
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
We can denounce Israel without justifying other atrocities. Do better.
No, you actually can't. There are only two sides, the occupation and the resistance. There's no secret third option you can support to feel morally cozy and superior to the people actually fighting for their lives. You have to actually pick a side, and if you try to choose neither you just end up supporting the side with all the power i.e. Israel.
If you don't support the resistance and their revolutionary actions, you support their extermination.
Shall we support resistance against imperialism, even if it's a fascist one that would oppress or shall stand next to every oppressed ? It could be a deep political split, for exemple between communists and anarchists, but not in this contexte.
Their is no way to really support arm resistance from US or Europe. But we have some ways to stop Israel support. Defending the Hamas will result in being marginalized from the mass, even if they do support Palestine, for no concrets support for any resistance.
This strategically a none-sense and just a posture
Ever heard of supporting the lesser evil? I bet that's the basis for how you vote. Just apply that to geopolitics.
Yep I hear that catastrophic take, it's always a shortcut to reproduce oppression. But that not the point.
What is the gain of supporting Hamas from Europe/US ? Is their weapon or training that will stop Israel ? If yes, even if I disagree politically, I would not argue on the strategy; but it's not.
We struggling to send foods and first help kit to civilian. We are not in the situation where this is a question.
Todays western left is more eager to pose than to act, and in this situations, when leftist say such things as "supporting arm resistance" it's just make people turn away.
Our class is deeply concern with Palestine situation, and the first mobilisation has to be stongly repressed by the bourgeoisie in order to stop the movement to be massive. However, the repression in a lot of countries have stopped month ago, and we are a very few to go to demonstrations and actions. We have to ask why. And I think that when people mobilize against the murder of civilian, they don't want to hear others promoting civilian murderer
"We hate genocide but we thing the victims should stay unprotected"
Typical idealistic bullshit from first worlders
You didn't read me. I said exactly the opposite.
You are literally saying we shouldn't support "armed resistance".
I'm pointing out of what we lose, and don't find any gain for the movement. I'm trying to discuss the concrete effectiveness of our strategies. You know, being materialist and stuff
All right, my apologies I see you mean well.
That being said it sounds awfully like the liberal goal of trying to appease fascists by sliding to the left. People actually like strong stances. Nobody denies that the resistance was necessary during the war. Hell people in ireland recognized that the IRA turned south at some point but that their struggle was necessary.
Have a good day :)
Genocide supporters aren't people silly.
If you still didn't understand hamas were right to fight back against their genociders you might as well be a genocide denialist. Don't pretend to be a good person.
I don't pretend to be a good person. I don't care, I'm no biggot.
I'm pointing out that the representation of anti-imperialism stand is not necessarily a concrete anti-imperialist stand. Thinkinq that being verbal about a cause is supporting it, and that "being a good person" a politic goal, is not being materialist, and could not lead to concrete change.
The government cracked down on people protesting against Israel and so the protests stopped. That's it. That's the whole reason.
If our support didn't matter they wouldn't have proscribed Palestine Action or deported college campus occupation organizers. Our support matters, the problem is that we were defeated.
In the US and Germany, maybe. In Italy, Spain, France, and a lot more places, their is no repression anymore. Italy got massive demonstrations recently, but this is an exception and if we want to support Palestine, we have to ask ourselves why.
My point is the contradiction of trying to mobilize for peace with bellicose words. Other causes could may be found, but it seems that nobody are interested in discuss about it.
What is need of being verbose about arm resistance in the support Palestine freedom ? I pointed ou the people we lose in this support, but if I'm missing something that our support may earn, please tell me
You're just asserting that we lose support when we express our support for Palestinian resistance, but I don't think we do. Why do you think the "do you condemn Hamas?" ritual happens? It's a tool to demobilize people. It's a trick they use on you to separate you from the actual resistance and leave you alienated from the struggle.
Condemning Hamas never helps anyway. Never ever never. Every fucking time they just call you a Hamas supporter anyway. So, why bother?
Give Zionists zero ground and never compromise.
Yep, of course I'm asserting. I'm speaking from my social position, and the only way I have to know if we could generalize to our class or not is to discuss about it. In another a class organization, like an union, we may see some subclass determination and see if their is different strategies for different industries.
I agree that the clever position is to not speak about hamas and arm resistance. I see many people I could convince thanks to the kind of position of Fanon, but maybe the movement will lose more people. You convince me that in this situation, "fanon" force an unnecessary split