this post was submitted on 25 Nov 2025
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Fuck Cars

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A place to discuss problems of car centric infrastructure or how it hurts us all. Let's explore the bad world of Cars!

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[–] Endymion_Mallorn@kbin.melroy.org 0 points 1 week ago (12 children)

I can't drive, and I live in New Jersey, a good place to live if you need mass transit. Even still, I have to rely on Lyft and Uber to get anywhere in a reasonable or reliable timeframe. Taking the train or the bus means I have to tack on an extra half hour, if I'm lucky. Going grocery shopping with mass transit is a nightmare, because of size and weight limits (I have to be ready to walk with that stuff for over a mile). Plus, I hurt my foot pretty badly about a month ago (walking between bus stops in an area that has no right to be as hazardous as it is), so any kind of transit is actively painful currently. Heck, even if I could drive, I couldn't, because it was my right foot that was hurt.

I don't see how it could be made better without having to do billions or trillions of taxpayer-funded upgrades to every road (and a lot of eminent domain to build sidewalks - very expensive and just as unpopular). I also don't see how it can get better with the labor costs where they are, unless our taxes go up even higher.

The fact that the system exists is a positive, but improving it is such an expensive endeavor for so little impact that it would be mostly pointless. No one is going to willingly choose to take an hour to get somewhere that a car can reach in ten minutes. No one is going to willingly choose to stand out on a random corner in the snow, rain, cold, or extreme heat just to wait for a bus that might already be delayed, and whose environmental systems might be malfunctioning. I don't see a way to incentivize people to even begin considering public transit with the time differences. I pay fees to Lyft or Uber that are an order of magnitude higher than what I'd pay NJTransit - and I'm not discouraged, because I just have to look at the difference in time.

[–] SwingingTheLamp@midwest.social 4 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

I don’t see how it could be made better without having to do billions or trillions of taxpayer-funded upgrades to every road

This seems like a good-faith comment, so I'll try to keep the snark to a minimum. Honestly, when I hear this sentiment, I think that somebody believes that roads are naturally-occurring phenomena. They just sort of... grow? appear? form from the bedrock?

Good lord, no! Roads are highly resource-intensive structures, and roads for cars have a finite lifetime, typically figured in the range of about 30 years before they have to be re-constructed. And that's not counting perhaps several rounds of re-surfacing and maintenance in that span. In fact, Strong Towns often points out that when businesses acquire a capital asset, they have to book the cost of future maintenance as a liability. Municipal governments, by contrast, book roads as an asset, and ignore the future maintenance liability. If they followed GAAP, most cities and towns would be bankrupt. Hence, the reason the American Society of Civil Engineers grades our roads as D+. As a country, we keep building roads that we can't afford to fix.

That is a long way of saying, "We have a backlog of trillions of dollars of maintenance to roads already!" They have to be re-built regularly, anyway, and lots are overdue. One of the major reasons that we can't afford to do it, and the reason that there are so many lane-miles of road to maintain, is cars. The simple geometry of the space needed for cars means that everything has to be far apart in order to fit the roads, and the parking lots, and the drive-thrus in between.

So, we're on the hook for a backlog of trillions of dollars of taxpayer-funded basic maintenance to roads, and we can't afford it. Wouldn't it be better to re-construct our cities and towns—which again, have to be re-constructed no matter what—around more opportunities for walking, biking, or transit? It would be way cheaper. And without all that pavement for cars, we could put things closer together. Walking to the local grocery would be convenient, because the nearest grocery wouldn't have to be 5 miles away, on the edge of town, where land for a parking lot is cheap enough. We could be healthier, stopping by the grocery for a few minutes on the way home a couple of times a week to pick up fresh, healthy ingredients, instead of loading up the car with a pallet of highly-processed food from CostCo every two weeks. We could have better weak ties with neighbors by seeing them from time to time at nearby places, which science shows is critical to addressing our mental health crisis. We could let our children, elderly, and disabled people have independence again. And the buses could be fast and convenient, if they didn't have to go so far and get stuck in private car traffic all the way.

Anyway, I've gone on long enough, but I hope that this is a peek at just how bad our car-based system is, and how it could be made better, and for cheaper.

[–] fluffykittycat@slrpnk.net 4 points 1 week ago

Imagine if we had to pass ballot initiatives and debate the cost and alternatives for freeways the same as we do for transit. Instead it's always a Blank check

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