this post was submitted on 11 Nov 2023
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Opinion: We have Forgotten the meaning of Remembrance (lemmy.ca)
submitted 1 year ago by troyunrau@lemmy.ca to c/canada@lemmy.ca
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With apologies for voicing an opinion rather than linking an external article.

I am of the strong opinion that Remembrance Day had become at best grandstanding, and at worst, completely meaningless. There are phases tossed around like "Lest we Forget" or "Never Again". But when Russia invaded Ukraine, we have effectively done the opposite (or very nearly).

Sure, we can send ammo so Ukranians can fight back, or host some of their forces for training. But the reality is, we are only marginally involved. We haven't mobilized. We aren't on war footing economically.

The root causes are many. But a combination of NATO's article 5 protection only kicking in if we are attacked (rather than joining an already existing war), and the threat of nuclear retaliation, means we are paralyzed politically.

At a minimum: I would support direct involvement, whether that's ramping up our own military, deploying specialists, reservists for minesweeping, stationing our own troops (meagre as they are) in Ukraine to directly support the fight. I would actually support much larger actions, including naval blockades or airspace closures but wholly understand that Canada cannot execute those on their own.

We cannot allow genocidal wars to be pressed in the modern world. And we should be doing everything we can about it. Right now, we're doing barely more than nothing.

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[–] Bipta@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

What exactly do you think the US is doing that's the equivalent of Russia having troops in Mexico? Hell if I can figure it out.

You sure very much describing appeasement. Russian officials have repeatedly let slip their desire to go further into Europe. There is really no difference.

And I'm someone more sympathetic than most to Russia's, "we had to do it," argument.

[–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 1 year ago

I mean, and Cuba is also a thing, although I guess the US did do something like Crimea 2014 back in the 60's.

[–] ininewcrow@lemmy.ca -2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If America has no hand in Ukraine .... how is Ukraine able to sustain its war with Russia?

It's almost become common knowledge to everyone now at this point ... Ukraine is a proxy war between the US and Russia.

A good way of understanding that is ... if the US were today to just withdraw its funding and supplies in Ukraine, how would Ukraine fair? If you removed all the military spending in Ukraine over the past ten years, how do you think history would have played out?

In terms of Russian expansionism ... how is it that they haven't changed their borders over the past 20 years, especially when they are right next to a few weak nations on their southern border.

The only nation I've ever read about that has spread and expanded their military and political influence worldwide to either occupy, influence or outright control foreign nations is the United States.

[–] troyunrau@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

In terms of Russian expansionism ... how is it that they haven't changed their borders over the past 20 years, especially when they are right next to a few weak nations on their southern border.

Wow, now you're showing either total obliviousness, or you are actually a full on believer of Russian propaganda.

Two obvious counterexamples: invasion of Georgian territories, 2008; Russian invasion of Ukrainian territories, 2014.

The US has launched military actions in a number of places, yes. They have never absorbed those places into the US. One can debate the legitimacy of those US actions, and in Canada we did debate them, electing not to join the US in Iraq, for example. But the legitimacy (or lack thereof) of those US actions does not affect the legitimatacy of Russian actions. The US hasn't invaded Canada or Mexico for the purpose of expanding their borders. (Okay, a century or more ago...)

Whataboutism sucks. But at least be correct when using it as your argument.

[–] ininewcrow@lemmy.ca -3 points 1 year ago

Russia, and the Soviet Union has barely ever expanded beyond Eurasia ... the United States is the only country in history besides the British Empire that has exercised so much control, influence and violence in the world. Sure the soviets and communists set up in places like Cuba, African countries and southeast Asia ... but they never built and established lasting military bases all over the world. And if you read the history, most of the supposed communists expansions turned out to be western espionage as a pretext to install their military and their corporations to exert their own control on the world.

US Interventions (for the past 33 years .... the list is much longer the further you go back)

https://archive.globalpolicy.org/us-westward-expansion/26024-us-interventions.html

1990-1991 Iraq Major military operation, including naval blockade, air strikes; large number of troops attack Iraqi forces in occupied Kuwait.
1991-2003 Iraq Control of Iraqi airspace in north and south of the country with periodic attacks on air and ground targets.
1991 Haiti CIA-backed military coup ousts President Jean-Bertrand Aristide.
1992-1994 Somalia Special operations forces intervene.
1992-1994 Yugoslavia Major role in NATO blockade of Serbia and Montenegro.
1993-1995 Bosnia Active military involvement with air and ground forces.
1994-1996 Haiti Troops depose military rulers and restore President Jean-Bertrand Aristide to office.
1995 Croatia Krajina Serb airfields attacked.
1996-1997 Zaire (Congo) Marines involved in operations in eastern region of the country.
1997 Liberia Troops deployed.
1998 Sudan Air strikes destroy country's major pharmaceutical plant.
1998 Afghanistan Attack on targets in the country.
1998 Iraq Four days of intensive air and missile strikes.
1999 Yugoslavia Major involvement in NATO air strikes.
2001 Macedonia NATO troops shift and partially disarm Albanian rebels.
2001 Afghanistan Air attacks and ground operations oust Taliban government and install a new regime.
2003 Iraq Invasion with large ground, air and naval forces ousts government of Saddam Hussein and establishes new government.
2003-present Iraq Occupation force of 150,000 troops in protracted counter-insurgency war
2004 Haiti Marines land. CIA-backed forces overthrow President Jean-Bertrand Aristide.