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LMAO, the people who leave are getting discounted houses/free land stolen from LIVING families who are now homeless. There are so many fucking reports, documentaries, and interviews about this, spanning back to the 19-fucking-70s. The Nakba is a real historically analyzed event. Fucking Helen Mirren has a quote about what she saw:
Who's the monster? Look in the mirror, "space cowboy". From a Canadian instance no less: you exist in a server on stolen treaty land, and you're support other's land getting stolen. What else is new.
This is interesting. She had other remarks about Israelis toward the end of her career as well. Less charitable ones
She had me in the first half, until the magical energy kicked in. Really illustrates how much you can overlook when you're quite sure you know who the good guys are. I bet the Nazi party also had its fair share of magical energy back in the day.
There were Jews living throughout the Middle East before 1948. Thriving Jewish communities in places like Cairo and Baghdad. Where did they go? Jews were forced out of their houses and had to move to Israel. But there were much more horrible things happening to Jews in the 1940s so most people don't think about it much. But maybe you pretend there was nothing bad at all happened to Jews in the 1940s, that kind of thinking seems to be getting commonplace nowadays.
There's no doubt terrible things have happened to Palestinians. But it's dishonest to be so selective about history. Especially when your goal is to dehumanize people.
But history is history. Today in 2026, 2/3 of racial attacks in my country are against Jews. We have synagogues being shot at coinciding with events in the Middle East. Sorry to pierce the safe little bubble you've built for yourself, but anti-zionism is the same as anti-semitism now. What else can we consider it to be? People attacking Canadian Jews because they're angry over things happening on the other side of the world. Anti-zionists don't distinguish between Israeli and Jew, so what are you doing be demanding some perverse form of political correctness in distinguishing between anto-zionist and antisemite?
You can get off the "Anti-zionist" ride at any time. There was never any goal to it anyway. Nothing that particular hate group is about benefits Palestinians anyway. Just promoting hate which can only get more people killed, and most of the people killed in the never ending conflict they want to go on forever are Palestinian.
Wow this is some serious islamaphobia here. Now let us watch as you try to cloak yourself in antisemitism while defending genocide. Such absolute bullshit.
So would you support the idea of ethno-states in general? Do you think being against ethno-states as a principle means one is against any given ethnicity that is attempting to found one? If you don't support ethnostates in general, what is the basis for granting exceptions such as to Israel? Having suffered a great injustice earlier in history? Couldn't, say, Ukrainians claim this because of the Holodomor? Would you find it ethical for them to, say, have separate rights for ethnic Ukrainians vs ethnic Hungarians, Russians, and others that are Ukrainian nationals?
I'm really asking here, because I just can't see how you can square this circle without just being plain arbitrary. You either are okay with the idea of ethnostates, or you aren't. And if you're in favor of them, you almost definitionally need to engage in either genocide (in the wider sense of any form of removal of a people) or apartheid (having separate classes based on ethnic lines). No? How else could you realize this without one of the two?
Not in general. When I was younger I didn't have a problem with there being a Jewish state, but I didn't think it was a necessity. I didn't think there would ever be large numbers of people becoming antisemitic. Sure there'd always be some white power losers, but not any significant movement based around antisemitism.
The antisemitism I've seen since October 7 has changed my mind. The attacks on synagogues, Jewish businesses, and harassment campaigns against Jews (there's even campaigns against holocaust museums) has convinced me that something akin to 1930s Germany can happen again. During that time Jews try to flee but no country would accept Jewish refugees.
It's a sad state the world is in today. Antisemitism is happening, we know it's connected to this "anti-zionist" movement, but people pretend it's not happening out of political expedience.
Leftists have always had a weakness towards anti-semitism (the old greedy capitalist Jew stereotype) as has the far right. In 1930s Germany the leftists and fascists joined together over their shared hatred of Jews. BTW, read about the night of the long knives if you want the biggest "leopards ate my face" moment in history, things didn't go well for the socialists once they were no longer useful to the fascists. Something to think about when you're rubbing shoulders with violent people that hate Jews.
History doesn't repeat itself but is sure does rhyme. We're in a dangerous time and we know antisemitism is a real force in radical politics on both the left and right, as much is you deny it because it's inconvenient to your narrative.
The need for a Jewish state is a indicator of a failure of humanity. It's sad that it has to be this way. Just as I wish that racism didn't exist at all, I wish there didn't need to be a Jewish state. But unfortunately racism does exist, and antisemitism is on the rise along with radical politics in which it is embedded. We've seen this story play out before.
I'll do what I can to make sure my country (Canada) will not repeat the mistakes it made in the past when asylum was not granted Jewish refugees from Germany. Recent statements by Mark Carney gives me some hope that at least Canada has learned from the past. But the constant attacks on synagogues in my country make me feel like the efforts by those that have read a history book may not be enough. So there needs to be a country of last resort for Jews.
This is not how I want the world to be, I'm just recognizing the reality of the world we're currently living in.
So I'd repeat my follow up question: aren't there quite a few peoples who could claim ongoing discrimination as a justification for founding an ethnostate? Should the Roma in Europe be given an ethnostate? Why do you only extend this to Israel? The Roma face far more open discrimination in Europe today, measurably. Should Europe hand them land that doesn't belong to Europe in India because that's their ancient ancestral homeland?
Heck, look at the anti-Islamic rhetoric and attacks that have happened post 9/11... doesn't this, using your reasoning, justify the existence of an Islamic State?
I don't think you can fight racism with more racism, and ethnostates by definition require some degree of racism. All you do is encourage more racism, and I think quite clearly this pans out as the rise in antisemitic views has directly coincided with the actions of Israel. Or you'll have to walk me through how they don't... if ethnicity is an institutional dividing line within a state, you necessarily have to engage in racism to uphold it.
(Also not sure what you're referencing in the Night of Long Knives... I really hope this isn't an oblique National Socialists are socialists reference, because that would be pretty ridiculous. Even the Strassers, while you can certainly argue had some socialist ideas informing them, were not really traditional socialists. National Socialism was a distinct movement from socialism, and the latter never really aligned themselves with fascists, they were actively bleeding fighting them).
You aren't wrong, but you aren't going to have a sane conversation about Israel on Lemmy.