No Stupid Questions

The concept of being vegan originated from a newsletter for vegetarian recipes in the UK, in the '60s, I believe. It was purely for recipes. Veganism was an offshoot of this newsletter that, from day one, was far more ideological. The people who ran this newsletter immediately succumb to much of the infighting common amongst the vegan community online today. It wasn't about a diet, it was about who could be the better person by being the most vegan.

I hate to break it to you, but vegans have been preachy and annoying since the concept originated.

I cook and eat vegan sometimes. I have a bunch of vegan friends.

Vegans on the internet are really annoying.

I love vegans. A few of my friends are vegan. There are two things some vegans will say which boil my piss, however. First is that they have a moral high ground because they don't eat animals. This isn't a given, it's a complex and nuanced argument I'd happily partake in if the other party weren't approaching it with a top-down belief that they're already in the right. Second is the notion that we should all be vegan to save the planet from climate apocalypse. I don't want this comment to get too long, but I have multiple problems with this faulty line of reasoning, and it muddies the waters. The only likely effect of it is that less progress is made on stopping global heating. So the upshot is that these people are literally sacrificing the ecosystem they purport to care about in order to bang their drum. Fuck that.

It’s because people feel threatened. Vegans indirectly say „you meat eaters are the baddies” no one wants to be the baddies. But… instead of putting effort to change to vegan, the easier and lazier thing to do is to paint them as mad, bad, cult, in the mind.

And also some of the vegans really ride a high horse and behave all pure and that stuff is making it easier. Some vegans really do it to get moral high and have superiority syndrome.

I am not a vegan but I managed to curb these coded in ape brain mechanisms somewhat.

They are way overly convinced their option is the best and only viable option, and they won't shut up about. They also want special treatment at all gatherings. "You don't have a vegan option?" "I said I was a vegan and all they gave me was a simple salad" "You're hurting the environment" blah blah blah.

Yes, "not all vegans are like that", but enough are that it makes them all assumed to be annoying.

How do you know someone is a vegan? Don't worry. They'll tell you.

The one nutrient I for sure know vegans lack should be Vitamin A, since it’s not found in plants and the body has this weird thing of "the more beta carotene it converts into Vitamin A, the less effective it gets“ making it impossible to get the minimum recommended amount of it - and vitamin A deficiency could lead to depression.

Currently being vegan or vegetarian is a choice of privilege. An healthy and varied diet becomes more difficult and expensive, when you start removing dishes from your pallet.

So it becomes coupled with a status symbol, instead of being the default way. As long as people call themselves "vegan" or "vegetarian" because of their choice (people being vegan or vegetarian because of mental or medical issues, is different case), they highlight that status over "normal" people.

If people are just not eating meat or animal products for whatever reason, without trying to use labels like "vegan" or "vegetarian" to highlight their status, then that is fine and a personal choice.

Creating societal change, to make vegan or vegetarian the default position, will also lessen the status of the vegans and vegetarians, that use those labels as such. So they have incentives to not produce a political or societal change.

Vegans & vegetarians should go on protests and lobby to make vegan food cheaper and easier than meat, so that it becomes the default. If they don't do that, and still call themselves vegan/vegetarian then that might imply that it is all about showing their status, and people don't like that.

Consumer choice is a privilege and not about creating an effective societal/political movement. They should not be used as a status symbol.

(Disclaimer: I eat meat and animal products very infrequently, only when my body demands it. I am also thankful for all vegans and vegetarians, because they gave us more interesting options in stores and restaurants.)

For me, it's this subset of vegans:

Me: want a burger? V: No thanks, I'm vegan. Me: Oh, cool. Well there's egg and cheese in the salad dressing so you'll want to avoid that too, but I have some black bean patties in the freezer if you want. V: Do you know how bad meat is for your body? Me: Yeah I actually do, but we all make our own decisions about self-harm, don't we? V: Factory farms are cruel and sadistic! Me: Agreed. That's why I buy from a local butcher. V: RAISING MEAT IS DESTROYING THE PLANET! Me: Corporations are destroying the planet. Now fuck off and let me enjoy my burger in peace.

Because it requires them to admit that what they're choosing to do is damaging the planet more significantly than they need to in order to survive.

People are haters, Lemmy is infested with them as you can see from other comments.

The core of the hatred is the hater doesn't want to admit they're wrong. Nothing you can do about that, but the fact is there are certain societal choices that can solve our problems and there are certain people who do and don't make those choices. Passionate vegans who try to convince people through force of rhetoric are usually wasting their breath, but effective activism doesn't trigger the same flight of fight neurotransmitter cocktail that argumentation does.

There's also a TON of capital interest in bashing vegan lifestyles from animal agriculture, manufacturing and so on.

The only way you can make someone into a vegan is to get them to decide that it's the best thing for themselves. My grocery bill is $50 to $150 a week for a 2-person household and I'm able to stay in great shape with minimal exercise because I sleep better at night.

Personally, I had a formative experience on a family ranch during steer castration that went badly. My dad says he saw the devil in the animal's eyes, if you ask me though it was his own mug reflected back at him. Cheese has always stunk to me and meat always has this aroma of decay to it even though meat eaters tell me it's good. A lot of people say things like "live and let live" and I think this is a good way of trying people's words against their actions.