this post was submitted on 01 Sep 2023
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[–] MapleEngineer@lemmy.ca 74 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (11 children)

Let's elect the Conservatives so they can cut taxes on the rich, cut services for the poor, neglect our government systems and infrastructure, drive up the deficit and the debt, then blame the Liberals for trying to fix their mess.

Rinse.

Repeat.

Why are people so fucking dumb? The Conservatives do the same thing every time. Then they lie about what the Liberals are doing and people swallow it hook, line, and sinker.

[–] braiseit420@lemmy.ca 4 points 2 years ago

Taxes are too high, government spending is out of hand, too many immigrants, and it's all the Liberals' fault.

That's it, I'm sawing off my legs! That'll show those Marxist bastards!

[–] xc2215x@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago (4 children)

People are upset with Trudeau so they will try another option.

[–] rbesfe@lemmy.ca 32 points 2 years ago

...without actually thinking about the consequences of that other option. Basically how every Conservative government has gotten elected in the last few decades.

[–] OutlierBlue@lemmy.ca 22 points 2 years ago

I don't like Trudeau either, but PP is way worse.

[–] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 9 points 2 years ago

That's part of the stupidity OP is talking about.

[–] gogreenranger@lemmy.ca 5 points 2 years ago

They will try the other option that worked so well the last time and the time before that and the time before that and the time...

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[–] justhach@lemmy.world 64 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Cool, so people are interested in making it worse? Lol.

[–] Showroom7561@lemmy.ca 37 points 2 years ago (1 children)

As long as they can blame liberals, they'd be ok with making things worse.

The fact is, all the hardship that most people are going through is likely down to their provincial leadership. Surprise, surprise, the majority are conservative.

I believe only Newfoundland and Labrador has a liberal premier, and their cost of living is below average.

But yeah, let's have more pain and suffering.

[–] CaptainFlintlockFinn@lemmy.ca 14 points 2 years ago

BC has an NDP premier.

[–] grte@lemmy.ca 12 points 2 years ago

While our politics is not technically two party, in terms of parties which have held power it is, and people seem stuck in that mindset. They know they are unhappy with the status quo, they know they want change, and the only change a lot of people are willing to consider is the one with the history of austerity.

[–] Ryan213@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago

It worked in Ontario!

Wait...

[–] ArugulaZ@kbin.social 47 points 2 years ago

STOP. SUPPORTING. TORIES. GODDAMN IT.

Honestly, what's the first thing out of a British person's lips? "I hate Tories, they're ruining this country." Yet they keep getting elected anyway. Can... can you see the problem with this? They pretend to be populist, but invariably steal from the poor and give to the rich. Stop falling for the bullshit and for your own prejudices and vote for people who will actually help the common man. Don't make the same mistakes we Americans keep making!

[–] danielquinn@lemmy.ca 27 points 2 years ago

It's been almost 100 fucking years and yet this is still relevant.

[–] Magister@lemmy.world 13 points 2 years ago (1 children)

It's especially rent, there was an article in QuΓ©bec about someone who saw her rent increase from 1750$ to 2900$, condo was not re-sold or anything, it's just the owner who want to eat poors.

[–] corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 26 points 2 years ago (2 children)

If we want rent control, tories aren't the answer.

[–] Ryan213@lemmy.world 17 points 2 years ago

They're never the answer.

[–] BedSharkPal@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 years ago

A lot of people just want to punish the Liberals for their failings (of which there are... many). The meme that Canada votes against people and not for people seems pretty accurate IMO.

[–] Rocket@lemmy.ca 12 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Haven't half of all Canadians always lived paycheque to paycheque? We can find the same headline going back decades. I thought the news was supposed to deliver that which is... new?

[–] alabasterhotdog@lemmy.ca 9 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Do you have any links to perhaps back up that assertion? I have my doubts that it's always been as high as 50%.

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[–] LostWon@lemmy.ca 12 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I don't understand how people can complain of "no options" or act like there are no other parties, just Coke or Pepsi. There are other parties, and even independents. Voting isn't supposed to be a popularity contest for the most slick and charismatic candidate, nor is it a game where you try to match who you think everybody else is voting for.

It just feels to me like everyone is doing what they think they're supposed to do (as if our votes are public?), instead of trusting themselves to really look at what they believe should happen and find a party that is willing (or at least more likely) to fight to have it done. 😟

[–] Forgetspasswords@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago

In Alberta there's a disgustingly large amount of people who simply vote blue because that's what their dad did, and what his dad did. If you ask them WHY they hate Trudeau, you can't get a coherent answer because they don't actually know.

My dad made a comment one day about how the "ruined" economy was all Trudeau's fault. I asked what he'd done and he couldn't think of anything to say.

Hard agree.. They just spew rhetoric because they think it's what they're supposed to say.. it's like a cult.

[–] devrandom@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Part of the problem is that none of the parties address the real problems created by their actions. Liberal introduce a nation-wide carbon tax that should in theory tax large companies. In reality: Companies don't pay taxes, they raise their prices to cover the tax increase which "trickles down" (the only time trickle down economics actually "works") to the people.

So without dealing with that scenario when implementing the taxes, the ordinary Canadian gets hosed.

But now lets say PP becomes prime minister and reduces the taxes. Is he going to force companies to drop their prices to make up for that? Probably not. Companies will just use that as profit. So Canadians are still getting hosed.

And now after that lets say Liberals rise to power again. And re-implement these taxes. Once again, the companies will just pass those added costs onto the consumer again.

I wish I knew what the solution is here but I really don't. It feels like no matter what the government in charge does, companies just keep using it as an excuse to hose us one way or the other.

[–] Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works 13 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I do need to point out that the carbon tax is a bad example here, because the tax is rebated directly back to individual Canadians. So even if companies are folding the tax into their prices, we're not paying for it. They're effectively raising the price, then paying us the difference.

Of course, companies that can find ways to reduce their carbon footprint can simply avoid paying the tax altogether, allowing them to obtain more profit at the same price point. This incentivises climate friendly behaviour.

It's not a perfect solution, but within the neo-liberal paradigm that we're currently stuck in its at least making a difference, and a lot of climate experts agree that carbon taxes are an effective strategy (they shouldn't be the only strategy, but that's a separate discussion).

Point is, companies raising prices in line with carbon taxes isn't hurting your wallet, because you're getting that money right back. The designers of the policy already knew that would happen and factored it in.

[–] devrandom@lemmy.ca -1 points 2 years ago (2 children)

In all fairness, I'm getting nowhere near the amount back on rebates that prices have increased for me. One check doesn't even cover 1 month of utility increases let alone the several months that go by in between. And there's grocery, clothing and fuel costs on top of that.

[–] Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works 5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

You're getting back the increase in price that's directly attributable to the tax. The rest is corporate greed my friend.

If we want to tackle that then a lot of people need to start getting really comfortable with the word "socialism."

[–] devrandom@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

That's fair. But as an ordinary person what I see is this: no matter which government is in charge, I'm getting poorer and no government is willing to do anything to help people like me. They just keep blowing smoke up my ass and pretending like they're actually doing something.

[–] Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 years ago

What makes you more of an ordinary person than anyone else here? We're all ordinary people.

And you're not wrong. We're being continually fucked over by the combination of corporate greed and weak governments who either do nothing to reign that greed in, or (in the case of the Conservatives especially), actively encourage it.

Which brings me right back to my previous point; if we want to solve the real problems then a lot more people need to get real cozy with the word "socialism."

And in the meantime, where governments fail, the people need to step up. Join a union; if your workplace doesn't have one, find one that does, or talk to your coworkers about starting one. Alone we are powerless, but together we can bring whole industries to their knees. If your union isn't doing enough for you, get involved in finding better leaders who will fight for what you need.

But for God's sake, don't vote for the scorpion and expect not to get stung. Pollievre can talk out the side of his mouth all he likes about what he's going to do for us regular people, but it's entirely clear where he stands, because it's where his party has always stood. Conservatives are, from their inception, the defenders of institutional power, and today that means being the defenders of the wealthy, no more, no less.

[–] Pxtl@lemmy.ca 5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

prices have increased for me

The price jump has nothing to do with the carbon tax. The carbon tax is $0.14 per litre, so it's only about 10% of the price of gas. That means it can only be blamed for 10% of the price-jump at an absolute upper limit, and that's only if your diet consists of chugging gasoline (hey, I don't judge).

If prices were only up 10% since last year I'd be goddamned ecstatic.

It's not. It's supply-chains, shockwaves from covid-shutdowns, pandemic-spending, a massive war in Asia between the world's biggest gas and grain providers, and anti-globalist on-shoring driving up prices. The last one of those isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it has a cost just like carbon pricing has a cost.

[–] devrandom@lemmy.ca -1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Okay yes, at the pumps it may be, but what I'm saying is: Company 1 increases their prices 10% to offset the CT costs. Company 2 takes that 10% cost increase + their 10% increase and raises their pricing. Company 3 has an increase from Company 2 + 10% increase of their own and raises their prices accordingly.

Every level raises the prices that much more and in the end the consumers get stuck with all of that. So we're paying the carbon tax for each company down the supply chain.

[–] Pxtl@lemmy.ca 3 points 2 years ago

That would only make sense if 100% of company 1's costs were gasoline. Also, the carbon tax has been going up every year since it first appeared in 2019. The price spike started last year. And the same price spikes are happening in every country, and most countries don't have carbon taxes.

[–] NENathaniel@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Governments mandating lower prices when taxes are raised won’t go well either. They’ll simply lower the quality of the goods and the same price

[–] devrandom@lemmy.ca 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Absolutely agree. "Shrinkflation" is already a real problem used by many companies to give the appearance of not raising prices.

[–] streetfestival@lemmy.ca 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Also 'skimpflation' - like reducing the proportion of expensive ingredients or reducing the quality of ingredients

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