How's this nationalism? It's about keeping money within the United States. Just "buy local" on a bigger scale. US parts means US manufacturing jobs which are few and far between these days.
this post was submitted on 18 Jun 2024
-6 points (41.7% liked)
[Dormant] Electric Vehicles
3202 readers
2 users here now
We have moved to:
A community for the sharing of links, news, and discussion related to Electric Vehicles.
Rules
- No bigotry - including racism, sexism, ableism, casteism, speciesism, homophobia, transphobia, or xenophobia.
- Be respectful, especially when disagreeing. Everyone should feel welcome here.
- No self-promotion.
- No irrelevant content. All posts must be relevant and related to plug-in electric vehicles — BEVs or PHEVs.
- No trolling.
- Policy, not politics. Submissions and comments about effective policymaking are allowed and encouraged in the community, however conversations and submissions about parties, politicians, and those devolving into general tribalism will be removed.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
And it's better for the environment to be shipped from a nearby state instead of half way around the world or even from parts of Mexico.
Rail is heavily used for shipping vehicles from manufacturers that put out large numbers, making it pretty economical and environmentally sensible to ship from Canada, Mexico, and many US states.
Right. I was talking more compared with shipping from overseas.
But you said "or even parts of Mexico". Large numbers of components in a Tesla come from outside the US, including from Asia. Not a lot of brands are mass shipping vehicles from Asia to North America, instead they build them here. And source parts from suppliers that build factories nearby.
Congratulations. You just won a place on my block list. For what you say? Being a pedantic, argumentative, dorkus.
I'm sure you are capable of figuring out what I meant but instead chose to argue over verbiage.
Being wrong hurt you that much? That's weird.
I'm unable to understand how it's not nationalism. It's literally a league table of the most national made vehicles. If you want to argue whether it's pointless or not, that can be up for debate. But things designed to make you feel national pride are nationalism.
And just to drive it home. Pun intended. Here's the first two definitions from the American Heritage Dictionary
- Devotion, especially excessive or undiscriminating devotion, to the interests or culture of a particular nation-state.
- The belief that nations will benefit from acting independently rather than collectively, emphasizing national rather than international goals.
Nationalism yes, but "Pointless nationalism"? They left off a key word in that.
from rdyoung's comment
it’s better for the environment to
Pointlessly shipping material from one side of the world to the other, then back isn't good for the environment. It may be good for the economy, but a few nations economy isn't the whole picture.
I don't dispute the benefit of producing cars on home soil, wherever that home soil is. My snideness was in regards to the PR aspect of it. I can pretty much guarantee, that at no point did anyone at any of these companies make a decision with this league table in mind. It just seems to be, "America, fuck yeah!" for the sake of it.
I think it's more of a "we don't want covid supply chains V2" with a bonus of "why not benefit Americans too?" Plus are you really buying an "American" car if it's made in Malaysia?
I hear you, but does it benefit Americans when the reality is that cars produced on American soil are more expensive.
If the car costs $1000 more, but pays American workers $5,000 does that benefit Americans more?
Yeah, but it's not just a thousand dollars, it's like ten times that.
For the same car? And with or without exploitative labor practices?
The only reason they make cars in places like China or Malaysia is because they can pay them almost nothing, and treat them like slaves.
What I mean is for an equivalent. If you compare the price of a Ford to a Kia,, the Kia is cheaper.
A Ford and a Kia might be in the same category of car, but they're almost not comparable.
Take the 2017 Ford Focus vs the 2017 Kia Forte, two cars my friend was looking at buying. The Focus sure ain't a sports car, but it handles well for a cheap compact sedan. The Forte handles like a tin can on wheels. The wheels are 10mm smaller at every tire size vs the Focus, the suspension is both firmer, and less precise (incorrectly balanced spring rate vs dampening vs rebound) and because of that the car reorientates itself on every big bump you hit, bumps that the Focus handles fine. The wheel well liner is made out of hard plastic on the Kia, the Focus is plastic, but with a cloth liner on it to reduce road noise. And sounds like there's no sound deadening anywhere in the cabin. The Focus is surprisingly quiet of a cabin for a car of it's price point. The 2017 Focus has a rear view camera as standard, the Forte it's optional.
According to cars.com: Focus - Forte
The base model Focus starts at $16,775, the Forte starts at $16,600
According to the NHTSA the Focus scores 5 stars on every category except rollover. The Forte scores 5 stars in only 8/12 categories. I can't find any of the updated crash test ratings for these vehicles, but recently they updated the side crash test ratings and a bunch of the "safe on paper" cars tanked in their rating. But both vehicles I'm sure are only safe on paper.
Plus nowadays there's a much bigger difference between the two cars. The Kia lacks an immobilizer. Until 2021 Kias with a standard key lacked an immobilizer which is absolutely inexcusable. So that $500 you saved on the initial purchase price translates to $500 extra paid per year.
I dunno, these new Kia EVs are pretty nice. They're everywhere in London. I don't even see any electric Fords.
Probably because Ford doesn't make any good EVs, and Kia is actually trying pretty hard in that area and legitimately innovating.
Ford in the US has the Mach-E, the F-150 Lightning, and the Transit cargo van. In the UK you guys get the weird electric Explorer that's nothing like the normal explorer besides the name. The Mach-E and Electric Explorer, F-150 Lighting, and I assume transit are a 400v system which is... aging to say the least. Kias new EVs are based on an 800v architecture which theoretically means it's much more efficient.
That said I have no experience driving a Kia EV to compare it's handling to another brand. But my co worker just traded in his BMW M4 for an EV-6 so that may change soon.
What? They're giving up their M4? That's huge!
I thought he was trading in his old Lexus SUV for it, but nope he traded in the fun car. To be fair he was daily driving that M4 and it had some hail damage he didn't want to have to get fixed.