By default just did a video (piped link) on this and I 100% agree with him. The killer feature is simplelogin. Being able to use a different alias email for every single account I use is absolutely amazing.
this post was submitted on 24 Sep 2023
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Privacy
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There are other such services such as addy.io but SimpleLogin is a lot better integrated IME. Addy for example can be quite janky; adding a big message up top of the email and such.
There's also the fact that you only need to trust a single entity for email if you use SL + ProtonMail.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.
I used to subscribe to Simplelogin as well - but lately I have been seeing sites/merchants who do not accept the Simplelogin email domains as valid, and I have to put in my personal gmail ID to proceed (e.g. the restaurant POS system "Toasttab").
I switched from Proton to Tutanota for two main reasons.
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I didn't want to put all my eggs into one basket, just like you. With Tutanota I get email and calendar in one package. For VPN and online storage I use independent solutions (Mullvad, local solution via syncthing). Related to this, I don't like paying for a bundle of programs when I only really want to use a subset.
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Proton isn't following through all the way. They keep adding services (password manager and captchas recently), but they don't provide the same experience across all devices. I'm on linux and their drive doesn't offer a client that syncs my folder with essential documents. I have to manual upload. That's a dealbreaker for me.
This is not to counter your point (I agree they should probably offer a client to sync files on Linux), but rclone recently added (beta) support for proton drive, so you might want to check that out if you're still using it.
One reason for deciding on which service(s) to pay for is which service do you want sticking around. I can get a wireguard VPN from a number of providers. I like the way Mullvad does things and so I choose to get my VPN from them. One could make the same argument for email from Proton or groupware from Kolab.
I think they are unnecessarily expensive for email. I would rather go with tutanota. I don't like having all my eggs in one basket. Calendar/email/contacts in one provider and VPN service in another is the way to go, in my opinion.
WHY isn't their email client on f-droid ? isn't it opensource ?
F-droid doesn‘t accept the Proton Mail client due to integrated google notification framework. The APK however is available on protonapps.com.
Proton is currently rewritting the Android application completely.
It is available through the IzzyOnDroid repository if you want to download and update the app using an F-Droid client.
Agreed, that would be nice. At least they have a dedicated APK download site. https://protonapps.com/protonmail-android No self-updating though
Proton plus here too. I use the vpn, 500gb drive for backups, and have set up my own domain name email. I tried their password manager but didnt like it at all. I dont think it is ready yet.
I use Proton Pass to generate aliases with the browser extension but otherwise use 1password which is much more mature and has great support on all platforms.
For what is worth I haven't been able to get the storage sync to work, the VPN app isn't as simple/fast/as easy as mullvad, proton has little support for Linux. I use proton because it works with portmaster but I'm not a huge fan of it.
Some third party tools you might find useful.
I do use rclone but I'm pretty happy with b2 storage. I did a small test with proton and it seemed to work.
https://rclone.org/protondrive/
VPN in docker with port forwarding. Didn't have any luck routing host traffic through it but I didn't dig too deep. Might be useful for a web based torrent docker container.
https://github.com/qdm12/gluetun-wiki/blob/main/setup/providers/protonvpn.md
They offer OpenVPN profiles for their VPNs so you can use them on basically any platform where that's available.
And even better: wireguard configs as well
I still can't see how their Proton CAPTCHA system being proprietary is justifiable.
I don't trust Proton enough to use it exclusively. Personally I use their free email tier as a secondary mailbox.
- They are not fully open source (I found only web client source code)
- Their last independent audit was in 2021 and was done for beta version of their email
- The audit itself was for security, nothing related to privacy
- They advertise their email service as encrypted: encrypted:
End-to-end encryption Proton Mail is a private email service that uses open source, independently audited end-to-end encryption and zero-access encryption to secure your communications. This protects against data breaches and ensures no one (not even Proton) can access your inbox. Only you can read your messages.
Which I see as deceptive: end-to-end encryption is working without user involvement only for emails between Proton mailboxes. In other cases user needs to establish PGP encryption on their own. Inbox may be not accessible by Proton (we actually have no clue because server side code is closed source), but unencrypted incoming messages can be easily intercepted by Proton relays.
I'm not saying that Proton does all this nefarious stuff, but their marketing is questionable.
When you send an encrypted email to a non-Proton user, you click on the lock icon to encrypt the email and assign it a password, which you need to get to your user. The recipient then receives an email with a link. They click on the link, enter the password and and can then view your email, which to my understanding is decrypted client-side.
I'm using Proton Plus, and have no need for their other services. Don't really see a necessity for VPN in my daylie use.
I am on proton plus, have to decide between proton unlimited (1/2 year plan) to get proton vpn, or continue with proton plus and get mullvad vpn.
Honestly, I think it boils down to our ecosystems. There are other mail + calendar providers out there. When children are involved, I think it's worth a few bucks to get a custom DNS, a privacy-focused email/calendar provider, and give children the space to grow up in a world that collects as little metadata as possible.
There's usually a black friday sale. I use simple login with the email service and its great. The vpn and calender are solid as well.
I was in te same situation as you . I had anonaddy (addy) , Bitwarden, Mullvad , and was using google drive for stuff I don’t care about privacy. The thing is that
- Bitwarden : has more development than proton pass , but pass is great anyway and has all my needs even 2fa.
- addy: has plenty of free things enough for me but started to find most of their domains are blocked to register a user. SimpleLogin from proton feels more developed and works flawesly with proton pass
- Mullvad: is an execelent vpn , very simple , fast , cheap , but it has very few locations and mine particular one was missing, also it doesn’t have port forwarding . All these thins proton vpn have it.
- cloud drive: I really needed something to store more sensitive data, proton drive now have a desktop client so it is perfect por my needs. If you sum all the services it will be like 8 or 9 dollars I think , and the benefits of the proton services integrations I think $13 is a win.
I've been using Nord, and I'm on the fence about switching to either Proton or Mull. I'd like to hear how people chose one or the other
You could setup your own VPN or use Tor
I prefer mullvad because it has the option to pay with monero. It also seems more trustworthy than proton because they don't sell out users (that we know of), or make false claims
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.
Proton unlimited, and I don't understand why did they go with Proton Pass. There's products like Bitwarden and LastPass (and more) that are feature rich. Bitwarden is open sourced.
I think having separate services is good, especially if it's cheaper that way. For photos I use ente even though I have 500gb just because they specialize in photos (same reason why Pass isn't useful IMO)
So what if LastPass exists? They got hacked twice and covered it up. Proton pass auto fill works better than LastPass. Use what you want but why suggest a product shouldn’t exist because there is competition?
I'm arguing that they seem to waste resources instead of solidifying their existing product suite. Like features for Drive, basic ones like a desktop client for auto sync.
I know you can't make a baby in 1 month with 9 women, adding another product with only basic fetures seems wasteful to me given the state of the other ones.
So when there's products like Bitwarden I wouldn't pay for Unlimited if you're looking for the most bang for your buck.
Agreed. Having choices is a good thing. I'm quite happy with Bitwarden, but I was happy to see that Proton is offering a password manager as well.
I avoid them with a 10.5 ft pole. They offer a false sense of security and promote proprietary software. There are cheaper options available
Could you namedrop some, for the curious amongst us?
I use posteo but you can find more here https://www.fsf.org/resources/webmail-systems
Thanks - I'll check them out. On the lookout for a decent alternative to Google workspaces....the problem is - they're stuff works really well especially within its ecosystem.
I only use them for email. I have a self hosted nextcloud for everything else
I cant remember which plan i am on but it costs $5/.o (paid in crypto) and allows me to use @mydomain.tld as my email address so if i ever leave them i dont have to change my email addresses again.
Proton Visionary for few years now, iirc paying about $200/y. Honestly I mostly just use for ProtonMail. Once or twice a month I use ProtonVPN but it's rare. Same for calendar. I don't use ProtonDrive as I prefer to rely on NextCloud on Webo, mostly due to rich document editing capabilities.
Overall very happy with it but I admit one of the motivation for paying so much for Visionary was both to support the project AND to rely on my own domain. This way if for whatever reason Proton goes to shit, which I surely hope not, I can seamlessly switch to another provider, or self host, and nobody would notice the difference, no lock-in despite quality and trust.
For an email client you should check out been using it for about 5 months now.