Ah. Blame America First.
this post was submitted on 25 Oct 2024
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When confronted with the consequences of decades of timidity, centrists start sounding like what happens when you pull the string on the back of a trump supporter.
That sentence has been strangled fir all it's worth, which isn't much. Communist controlled states have these consequences and they blame others for them.
Communist controlled states have these consequences and they blame others for them.
Yeah I'm sure it has nothing to do with the embargo that has been in place for, what, ~80 years now? Completely unrelated.
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Cuba has been sanctioned for longer than any other country in modern history. But almost a decade ago the Obama administration softened sanctions on the island and restored diplomatic relations with Havana, admitting that over half a century of immiserating the island had failed to oust the communist government. The economic rebound was swift. But in the final weeks of the Trump administration, the White House put Cuba back on the State Department’s list of state sponsors of terrorism, alongside Iran, Syria and North Korea, for nakedly political reasons and without providing evidence.
Cuba watchers expected that Biden would restore Obama’s raft of achievements. After all, on the campaign trail in 2020 Biden promised that as president he would “reverse the failed Trump policies that inflicted harm on Cubans and their families.”
Instead, Biden has one-upped Trump by going further than the previous administration in attacking Cuba’s tourism industry – the main engine of the island’s economy. Two years ago, the Biden State Department barred foreigners who visit Cuba from visa-free travel to the U.S.
It kind of is America's fault.
No it isn't. It's not the fault of the fault of the US that Cuba ran out of clean water, electricity and food. They are inept, and no longer supported by the Soviet Union and Venezuela. Venezuela ran out of toilet paper once, and people blamed the US. Ridiculous
So can I tie someone down to a set of train tracks and absolve myself of any culpability when they eventually get run over by a train?
Cuba is not the most sanctioned country in the world, that position is held by Iran and Russia. Cuba only uses sanctions to justify its mistakes and its ineptitude, but with each passing year it becomes more difficult.
Even China is getting tired of Cuba because it does not want to change its economy.
Cuba is not the most sanctioned country in the world
I never said that? Not sure what the point of your comment is here.
The easy response is that they tied themselves to the tracks. Besides human rights abuses, there's this.
The US can choose who it does business with.
Look what you made us do.
The easy response is that they tied themselves to the tracks.
No they really didn't and you're intentionally deflecting the point. Relationships were being normalized. True, Trump walked them back. But Biden campaigned on bringing it back and not only did he fail on it, he made them worse. And people wonder why Democrats aren't getting as many latino voters. You're insistence on deflecting the blame is counter-productive to the kind of discussions needed for a healthy political climate in America.
Cuba never lived up to its side of the deal. Free and fair elections were not held, prisoners were not released and the safe haven for terrorists was maintained. Takes two to tango. Still, their present situation is not due to an embargo. That's. Simply their excuse.
Exactly, even China is getting tired of Cuba because it does not want to implement economic reform. But it spends that money on building hotels or on luxuries for the island's political elite.
What deal in specific are you talking about here?
There were high level diplomatic discussions between the US and Cuba in 2016. The result of which Raul Castro announced he would not stand for re election. Fidel, who was still alive, seemed good with this. Then, the brothers Castro re reversed themselves. They conducted the same old shame elections. As usual, they wanted their cake and eat it too. Congress, particularly Cuban American members, became more more reluctant to continue the diplomatic thaw.
Ok, so no actual deal right? Just discussions. Gotcha.
So in the absence of any actual deal that was supposedly reneged on Cuba's part. What's the justification of the sanctions imposed by Trump and Biden, and it's continuation of it?
No actual documents exist for the diplomc thaw. If you want those, fill out an FOI request. Otherwise, the congressional journal will have to do.
Here's your justification
No actual documents exist for the diplomc thaw.
Because they don't exist.
You're link is for 2019. Biden ran in 2020 and he included in his platform to move towards normalizing relationships with Cuba. He has since decided to impose even more sanctions which had a direct negative result on the Cuban economy making them much more vulnerable to disasters like this. So again, what are the justifications of the sanctions?
They do exist. There were at least 4 rounds of diplomatic discussions. Notes were taken.
The link still stands at State. It's the current position.
What new sanctions? Specifics.
They do exist. There were at least 4 rounds of diplomatic discussions. Notes were taken.
Ok so show me evidence of this supposed deal then.
The link still stands at State. It’s the current position.
And Biden campaigned on changing it but broke that promise.
What new sanctions? Specifics.
It's literally in the article as well as one of the excerpts I quoted to you in my first comment:
Instead, Biden has one-upped Trump by going further than the previous administration in attacking Cuba’s tourism industry – the main engine of the island’s economy. Two years ago, the Biden State Department barred foreigners who visit Cuba from visa-free travel to the U.S.
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Biden did not remove the sanctions that Trump had put in place because they provoked the Cuban electorate living in Florida to vote Republican.
Can you source this please? I'm not able to find anything like that on my own.
Nowhere in either of the 2 articles you provided does it say Cuba tried to influence votes in any way. In fact, they full on say that there is no real reason that Cuba is sanctioned to begin with:
From the first article:
In short, there is no longer any legitimate rationale whatsoever for Cuba being designated a state sponsor of terrorism. Cuba stays on the list because the Biden administration does not have the political courage to remove it — even though Cuba and the United States have a Memorandum of Agreement and active dialogue on counter-terrorism cooperation!
The second article only mentions that upset Cuban-Americans (not the Cuban government) were upset with the Democrats and voted Republican.
A vocal Cuban diaspora community in the U.S. has helped push the formerly contested state of Florida firmly into Republican hands. Among Democrats, Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chair Bob Menendez, himself the son of Cuban immigrants who fled prior to the revolution, has proven to be among the most powerful opponents within Biden's own party of any easing of restrictions against Cuba.
I was talking about the Cuban electorate that participates in the elections. Not the Cuban government, which in my opinion I don't think wants to invest in having its famous excuse removed because it would ruin it.
But I'll leave you with another more recent piece of news that shows how much percentage of Cubans still support the embargo.
No you said, "because they provoked the Cuban electorate living in Florida to vote Republican".
So no, the sanctions are not justified.
Why do you think I'm referring to the Cuban government when I talk about Cuban voters?
No, it's just an excuse for the regime. But Cuban voters are the ones who rule the elections.
because they provoked the Cuban electorate living in Florida to vote Republican
Who's they in this case?
I am referring to Cubans who live in Florida and who are an important group for Democrats and Republicans.
So Cuban-American's living in America voted one way and therefore Cuba must be punished? Not really getting your logic here.
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