this post was submitted on 19 Dec 2024
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[–] stoy@lemmy.zip 432 points 1 week ago (7 children)

He has the right to be judged by a jury of his peers, and it appears as if his peers agree with his actions.

[–] bobs_monkey@lemm.ee 257 points 1 week ago (1 children)

"As this man's peers, you must be the judge of his actions."

"Ok"

"Wait, not like that"

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[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 71 points 1 week ago (2 children)

"Friedman Agnifilo would ask potential jurors where they reside in Manhattan and where they get their news sources from to determine their political leanings," Kerwick said.

I mean, he is from a wealthy family, but there's still not going to be many working class people in Manhattan.

I think people are expecting too much from the jury.

It's going to be a bunch of insanely wealthy people who will 100% want to remind everyone the rich are untouchable

[–] frezik@midwest.social 76 points 1 week ago (26 children)

Median household income in Manhattan is about 100k. It's not all insanely wealthy people.

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[–] cygnus@lemmy.ca 274 points 1 week ago (1 children)
[–] skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de 113 points 1 week ago (7 children)

careful, lw mods don't like that

[–] cm0002@lemmy.world 136 points 1 week ago (4 children)

It was clarified that talking about Jury Nullification in the context of future crime is a no-no because it's a no-no in the country lw is based. But in the context of already committed crime it's fine.

So "Go ahead and commit the crime and we'll do jury nullification!" Is bad, but "Crime was committed, but we sympathize with the motive/person/whatever so let's do jury nullification !" Is OK

[–] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 73 points 1 week ago (4 children)

The whole thing sounded to me like a smokescreen for, "We fucked up, and we shouldn't have banned talking about it in the first place. We talked about it and banning it was a bad decision that we briefly doubled down on."

Credit to them for reversing themselves, I guess. That said, coming up with contrived explanations for why you never made a mistake in the first place, because you're always right, is one of the telltale signs of being full of shit. You can just tell people the main explanation. They'll actually respect you more, not less, if you don't engineer your reasonings to maintain this Wizard of Oz veneer.

[–] curbstickle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 32 points 1 week ago (2 children)

The whole thing sounded to me like a smokescreen for, "We fucked up, and we shouldn't have banned talking about it in the first place. We talked about it and banning it was a bad decision that we briefly doubled down on."

I mean... Yeah.

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[–] nondescripthandle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 29 points 1 week ago (5 children)

Lemmy world should have lost all credibility after they hard commited to the bias bot against the majorities wishes, but even on the fediverse people just don't want to move instances. Im starting to think centralization is far from the only issue with social medias today, probably still the biggest, but by a lot smaller margins than I used to think.

[–] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 30 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I think they did, to be honest. I've abandoned most of the LW communities and I think I'm not the only one. There's enough inertia in the system that I'm sure they will still be a big instance, but the reputational impacts of things like that are often permanent.

To me, the big thing about the bias bot wasn't the enforcing of the bias bot, it was the lying. If they had come out and said, "The bot is useful for moderation, we're keeping it even if people don't like it," I don't think it would have been any kind of big deal. What causes people to have this really unhappy reaction is telling them, "People love the bot! The minority who doesn't like it is just mounting a pressure campaign" or "You just don't understand the issues involved like we do" or "We're fighting misinformation!" or "The admins are making me keep the bot" "No we're not, the moderators want to keep the bot" or deflecting into this conversation about the cost of accessing the MBFC API or whatever other totally weird irrelevant issue.

The !news@lemmy.world moderators were the ones who asked their users, got the answer that people didn't like the bot, and took it away. It doesn't have to be complicated. That's why I'm still subscribed to !news@lemmy.world when I've abandoned the other LW news communities, and I've noticed that my Lemmy browsing experience has been remarkably free of weird bad-moderation bullshit ever since. There are no friendly conversations between jordanlund and UniversalMonk. I haven't had articles I've posted get removed for totally frivolous reasons. There are no bots that every user hates and every moderator insists has to be there. It's just news! Good stuff.

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[–] NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 17 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (4 children)

The world admins have a long history of this kind of shit.

A great example was when they updated the TOS to remove specific call outs for (if memory serves) transphobic hate being against TOS and instead replacing it with very generic text. The response being that they didn't need that text because the generic call outs covered it.

Nobody with two brain cells was fooled and everyone knew it was about getting ahead of angry chuds who might be mean to the admins. But enough people were mysteriously banned for horrible shit (with their whole post histories being wiped) and everyone else who cared left for different instances.

I'm not going to fault admins for not wanting to get calls from the FBI. I will fault them for abandoning our friends because they don't want angry emails. But, either way, the constant need to build up weird narratives and assume everyone else is really THAT stupid is just tiresome.

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[–] shittydwarf@lemmy.dbzer0.com 83 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Weird, jury nullification is super legal and super cool

[–] very_well_lost@lemmy.world 53 points 1 week ago (1 children)

American Dad basically did an episode on this where Roger is on trial and is so personable that Stan is the only reason jury nullification didn't happen.

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[–] Allonzee@lemmy.world 137 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (8 children)

I thought they put the terrorist charge on him precisely to avoid requiring a jury as part of all the ~~rights~~ privileges we surrendered post 9/11 in the name of... Pffff... National security.

National security being hilarious considering the CEOs are still walking the streets free, murdering citizens for profit having never not being actively sucked off by legislators that passed the patriot act and similar legislation.

The murderous Shareholders are already inside the house. They own the house. You can barely afford to rent it from them.

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[–] shittydwarf@lemmy.dbzer0.com 132 points 1 week ago
[–] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 128 points 1 week ago (2 children)

When this happens, it means the laws that enable these people are no longer acceptable to the people. That's a dangerous place to be.

[–] WoodScientist@lemmy.world 54 points 1 week ago

It's only dangerous if you're a mass murderer. Don't want to get gunned down on the sidewalk and have people celebrate your death? Don't be a mass murderer.

[–] ramsorge@discuss.online 23 points 1 week ago (1 children)
[–] TheReturnOfPEB@reddthat.com 42 points 1 week ago (1 children)

If it works for qualified immunity it works for Luigi.

[–] rc__buggy@sh.itjust.works 27 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Was Luigi ever trained that he was specifically not allowed to shoot a CEO in the back? If not, qualified immunity

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[–] Emberleaf@lemmy.ml 71 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (14 children)

When a person or entity is responsible for the untimely deaths of literally thousands of American citizens, the question should be whether or not this was a justifiable homicide. Is a police officer put on trial for shooting and killing a gunman mowing down children at a school? Why is this case different?

[–] whyNotSquirrel@sh.itjust.works 23 points 1 week ago (3 children)

is a police officer put on trial for killing a baby?

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[–] WoodScientist@lemmy.world 62 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Of course. He's clearly not guilty. Thompson willingly surrendered his humanity a long time ago, and you can only commit murder against a human. What Luigi did was more like deconstructing a cardboard box or other inanimate object.

He did however leave those shell casings on the sidewalk, and that's just not cool. They should give him a ticket for littering and send him on his way.

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[–] Red_October@lemmy.world 59 points 1 week ago (3 children)

It'd be pretty rough if they couldn't possibly find a jury that would convict, think of how the CEOs of the nation would feel if they realized fully just how many people are entirely okay with eating them.

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[–] PortoPeople@lemm.ee 46 points 1 week ago (1 children)

It's going to be really difficult to convict him, I'm happy to say. Dude's a hero.

[–] pachrist@lemmy.world 24 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Part of what made Joan of Arc a name that has lasted 1000 years is not that she was a hero, it's that she was killed for being a hero.

Heroes get remembered, but legends never die.

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[–] dan1101@lemm.ee 36 points 1 week ago (3 children)

And yet with millions of people to choose from I don't think they will have a terrible time finding some that are pro-corporation and pro-billionaire and/or sufficiently against killing no matter what the justification.

[–] dependencyinjection@discuss.tchncs.de 24 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Isn’t it a random selection (ignoring any possibility for manipulation for a moment) and then each lawyer gets a certain number of objections to a juror?

I guess with this they can still try and stack a CEO sympathetic jury still.

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[–] Draegur@lemm.ee 30 points 1 week ago

But the problem is, the mainstream and government are calling him a "terrorist" and "terrorists" don't have rights; under the USAPATRIOT Act, they are "enemy combatants" and the only thing they get is extrajudicial imprisonment and daily ~~torture~~"simulated drowning".

[–] tlou3please@lemmy.world 30 points 1 week ago (6 children)

This is actually quite an interesting case study for jury selection / vetting. The motive clearly relates to political views about the healthcare industry that affect every single American other than extreme outliers. It's therefore pretty impossible to select a jury that can be entirely neutral. Because no matter how politically unengaged they are, it still affects them.

Arguably, the most neutral person would be someone who hasn't interacted much with healthcare as a citizen. But healthcare issues in America start straight away from birth, because the process of birth itself is a healthcare matter for both mother and child, and there's no opting out from being born. That's only not the case if you're foreign born or from a very wealthy background, but you can't have a jury comprised of just them because that's not representative of the American public.

I wouldn't be surprised if this drags on for a long time before any trial even starts. In fact, I'd be suspicious if it doesn't.

[–] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 0 points 6 days ago

Just import a jury

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[–] frezik@midwest.social 22 points 1 week ago (7 children)

Based on the recent Emerson poll (https://emersoncollegepolling.com/december-2024-national-poll-young-voters-diverge-from-majority-on-crypto-tiktok-and-ceo-assassination/), they'll find a jury just fine. They will have to weed out strong sympathizers, but it's not going to halt the process or anything. While it's uncommon for murderer cases to get this level of sympathy, prosecutors of high profile cases with a sympathetic defendent have delt with this before.

[–] NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world 21 points 1 week ago (3 children)

There's limits on selecting people. You can only say not that one so many times.

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