this post was submitted on 28 Dec 2024
87 points (87.8% liked)

Asklemmy

44246 readers
427 users here now

A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions

Search asklemmy πŸ”

If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!

  1. Open-ended question
  2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
  3. Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
  4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
  5. An actual topic of discussion

Looking for support?

Looking for a community?

~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Ie not vegan@lemmy.world.

Edit: I am going to try to start my own for now here https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/plantbased

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] socsa@piefed.social 8 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (2 children)

The entire "problem" with veganism is that almost anything which starts with such an inflexible moral imperative ends up becoming militant, specifically because that rigidity quickly becomes at odds with more practical and functional versions of the idea.

Like so many similar ethics, veganism doesn't really concern itself with creating a practical or actionable roadmap for how food supply chains can be iteratively modified towards the goal of reducing animal suffering. Militant moralists, in fact, tend to avoid such things specifically because they demand a framework of accountable progress. Demanding radical and unrealistic measures be taken, and then condemning those who express skepticism or hostility of this idea is much easier. Like a religion.

[–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 4 days ago (3 children)

the entire problem with your comment is that you are using vague language and not defining your terms. as a result, you have presented unfalsifiable theory.

no one should believe anything you've written here.

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] ComradeMiao@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Eh, veganism is quite clear in that it doesn’t support the use of any animal products. If one doesn’t live by that fully everyday there is still benefit to doing it in part.

You’re also wrong about vegans not being concerned about supply chain ie how people get there food and how it affects people and animals.

There’s no problems with morals lol. Are you going to argue that not killing is like a religion?

[–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

There's a lot of ideas that I agree with, but that are made into a religion. I think it's because abstract ideals aren't very motivating on their own.

[–] socsa@piefed.social 6 points 4 days ago

You can't think of any valid reason to kill?

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 37 points 6 days ago (4 children)

What do you mean by "militant and rude?"

[–] ClassifiedPancake@discuss.tchncs.de 76 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Not accepting that people need time to adjust and maybe go vegan in smaller steps. There is even hostility towards people who look for fake meat or dare to say they like the taste of meat even though they still want to avoid eating it. Just generally being assholes and gatekeepers.

[–] themadcodger@kbin.earth 32 points 6 days ago (1 children)

That's been my experience too. I'm trying to eat less meat and find alternatives that work for me, but it apparently has to be all or fuck you for some. I know it's not everyone, but somehow they seem the loudest and it's not very helpful.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 18 points 6 days ago (5 children)

This is a natural consequence of always being attacked by non-vegans, patience is thin and communities are maintained by the ones who remain. Unlike, say, gaming, veganism is constantly attacked, so it's harder for them to be more inclusive than a gaming community would be.

[–] PonyOfWar@pawb.social 21 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (4 children)

Seems a bit like a vicious circle to me. Hate against vegans leading to a hateful reaction, leading to vegans being perceived as assholes, leading to more hate against vegans etc. I guess it's understandable, but it also seems counterproductive for spreading veganism.

Anecdotally, as a vegetarian I can say that the most vicious attacks against my lifestyle were not by meat eaters but some vegans (online-vegans to be precise, all I've met IRL were nice people). That's despite me certainly never attacking veganism, I even think it's morally superior to vegetarianism.

[–] Soulcreator@lemmy.world 3 points 4 days ago

I really think this is an incredibly insightful take. I can't say I hang out in many vegan specific corners of the Internet, but I know there is a very active and vocal segment of the Internet community that's anti-vegan, I've heard stories of coordinated brigading attempts against vegan communities on the Internet.

I'd imagine it would be almost impossible to run an open and welcoming community when you are getting constantly inundated with hate messages, eventually it would become incredibly difficult to discern between a user who has genuine curiosity and one who is asking bad faith questions in order to trigger some kind of debate.

At this point in time you couldn't pay me to become a mod in one of those communities, it really seems like a no win scenario.

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] Saeculum@hexbear.net 14 points 6 days ago (2 children)

G*mers are actually the most oppressed minority

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 6 days ago
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] MarxMadness@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 5 days ago

None of the vegans I know in real life are as hostile as some vegans get online. Probably a majority of vegans I see online (or in interviews, articles, etc.) aren't hostile. The hostility is coming mostly from vegans who think it's a useful tactic to get others to agree with them.

It's a whole other discussion about how effective that tactic is, or who it's effective on. But it is definitely a choice, because there are tons of vegans out there who choose to present their ideas differently.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] ComradeMiao@lemmy.dbzer0.com 15 points 6 days ago (4 children)

Previously I found that they were staunchly anti-anything but vegan and carried over said rudeness from the reddit communities. As a vegan myself it was a big turn off. I asked about this and they banned me. Reminiscent of lemmygrad on anything but their specific MLM ideology.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 21 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Lemmygrad aren't MLM, they are ML with Dengist sympathies and are anti-Gonzaloist, but regardless most Vegans on the fediverse are Vegan because of strict ethical and moral reasons and believe in full animal liberation. It's hard to take a half-way stance on that matter with that frame of mind, which can manifest itself in "rudeness." Additionally, most Vegans experience tons of hostility, making them more defensive by default.

[–] ComradeMiao@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 6 days ago (1 children)

That makes sense about lemmygrad's odd takes.

As a vegan I fully get that, but most vegan communities are hostile at best.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 19 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I wouldn't say Lemmygrad has odd takes for being MLs, they are extremely consistent with most organized ML parties worldwide. I'd need to know what you mean by "odd," the fact that they have an ML line or their interpretation of ML, the latter of which is very standard from what I have seen.

Back to Veganism, I haven't experienced hostility, and I think it's generally going to be that way unless you bash veganism or defend antiveganism or non-veganism, hence the point of a vegan community. Just my 2 cents.

[–] ComradeMiao@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 6 days ago (14 children)

That's good to know, thanks for sharing! I appreciate your explanations.

IDK, I disagree. I've experienced it both on reddit and here. Everyone is vegan or vegetarian for their own reasons, I don't think enforces a specific ideology or you can't discuss is fair to newbies or anyone is doesn't 100% agree.

Regardless, I will look for another not lemmy.world one.

load more comments (14 replies)
load more comments (3 replies)
[–] tiefling@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 6 days ago (12 children)

I always wonder where people are going that this seems so common. I've been relatively low meat for a while, what's called half-vegetarian/flexatarian. My experience is that most vegans/vegetarians just want to share their favorite recipe.

load more comments (12 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Kuori@hexbear.net 20 points 6 days ago

most people with values will be pretty stringent about them

not sure you're gonna find anything

[–] southsamurai@sh.itjust.works 16 points 6 days ago (10 children)

Right now, nowhere on lemmy that I've found.

Mind you, it isn't every person, but all the vegan communities and instances are currently run by militants of some degree. The .world one is the least militant that I've run across.

They aren't all rude, but definitely have the kind of thinking that leads to rudeness eventually.

Which really sucks because there's plenty of really chill vegans on lemmy. But you can't talk to them in vegan spaces without it being a problem unless you're parroting the scripture of vegan to their satisfaction.

Being real, I kinda wish someone would start a decent relaxed community.

load more comments (10 replies)
[–] r0ertel@lemmy.world 7 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Joined/subscribed, but not vegan. I enjoy cooking and have started adding some vegan dishes to the rotation to learn some new cooking techniques on foods that I'm not familiar with cooking, like soy. I enjoy the new challenge. Also, I feel like there are probably health benefits. I'm particularly interested in awhile food based cheese substitutions. I found a fantastic vegan queso dip with 3 ingredients. The other stuff is good, too, but not really on my mind.

You're exactly the type of person that I welcome that I believe other communities would be rude to! :) I eat soy daily based on my cuisine so I will try to share some recipes. Can you share the vegan queso dip in a post maybe? Sounds good!

[–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 5 days ago (10 children)

I just want to say I love militant vegans, so long as militant means they are organized and actively creating the world they want to live in. if they are just preaching, I would not say they are militant, just evangelical.

and, to be clear, I'm neither. I just find militancy admirable.

load more comments (10 replies)
[–] InEnduringGrowStrong@sh.itjust.works 3 points 4 days ago (1 children)
[–] graymess@hexbear.net 10 points 6 days ago (7 children)

Not being useful to your question at all, but if you find or start a community, I'll join. I've been various stages of vegetarian and vegan over the last 6 years. Never felt like I needed to talk about my specific, contextual exceptions, but I'm guessing it wouldn't be well accepted among hardline vegans.

load more comments (7 replies)
load more comments
view more: next β€Ί