this post was submitted on 20 Oct 2023
2 points (100.0% liked)

Programming

21593 readers
304 users here now

Welcome to the main community in programming.dev! Feel free to post anything relating to programming here!

Cross posting is strongly encouraged in the instance. If you feel your post or another person's post makes sense in another community cross post into it.

Hope you enjoy the instance!

Rules

Rules

  • Follow the programming.dev instance rules
  • Keep content related to programming in some way
  • If you're posting long videos try to add in some form of tldr for those who don't want to watch videos

Wormhole

Follow the wormhole through a path of communities !webdev@programming.dev



founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

In this blog post, we explore the ecosystem of open-source forks, revisit the story so far with how Microsoft has been transforming from products to services, go deep into why the Visual Studio Code ecosystem is designed to fracture, and the legal implications of this design then discuss future problems faced by the software development ecosystem if our industry continues as-is on the current path...

top 11 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] armchair_progamer@programming.dev 2 points 2 years ago (4 children)

It's funny because, I'm probably the minority, but I strongly prefer JetBrains IDEs.

Which ironically are much more "walled gardens": closed-source and subscription-based, with only a limited subset of parts and plugins open-source. But JetBrains has a good track record of not enshittifying and, because you actually pay for their product, they can make a profitable business off not doing so.

[–] Lucky@programming.dev 1 points 2 years ago

Agreed. Their business model is transparent: we give them money, they give us good products

[–] mrkite@programming.dev -1 points 2 years ago

It's funny because, I'm probably the minority, but I strongly prefer JetBrains IDEs.

So does anyone who was forced to use eclipse.

[–] eluvatar@programming.dev -1 points 2 years ago

Yes their stuff is great, I've been using rider over vs for years.

That said, for new stuff vscode is better because it'll have a decent extension, where as jetbrains will only really support popular stuff. For example the Svelte support in the past wasn't great, as it's been getting more popular they brought integration with the Svelte IDE tooling.

[–] ck_@discuss.tchncs.de -1 points 2 years ago

But JetBrains has a good track record of not enshittifying and, because you actually pay for their product

I disagree.

Jetbrains is going essentially the same way with kotlin. Even though it's open source on paper, Jetbrain is gatekeeping it to a degree where they are actively blocking changes that would make it easier for LSP developers to integrate (thus potentially creating competition to their intellij products ).

[–] Corngood@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago

We really need open source language servers (for me to use in Emacs).

To me it's not a cost problem, it's just too important a tool for me to be unable to fix it when it breaks.

I've spent too much of my life suffering with problems in proprietary software (shout out to windows and visual studio especially) that I can't realistically investigate, let alone fix.

[–] Stefh@programming.dev 0 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I did not understand anything

[–] jeffhykin@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

"Its MIT open source and anyone can use it!"

  • But Microsoft only publishes a not-MIT licensed one
  • And if you DONT use that one, the extension store created by microsoft wont work
  • And even if you make your own extension store (which people did for VS Codium) you legally wont be allowed to use any of the de-facto quality of life extensions (Python, SSH, Docker, C#, C++, Live Share, etc)
  • And those extensions default to needing fully-closed-source tools develped by microsoft
  • AND, unlike Chromium, anything that tries to fork and build on top of VS Code, (e.g. gitpod; a web-based dev environment) will die because none of the de-facto/core/quality-of-life extensions people are used to will be available. They'll have to use the Microsoft alternative (e.g. Github workspaces)

The MIT codebase is just bait

[–] eluvatar@programming.dev -1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I think when it becomes a problem it won't be hard for the community to build their own extensions that can be used anywhere. It doesn't hurt right now so that work hasn't been done yet.

[–] jeffhykin@lemm.ee 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Will it ever hurt though? Its designed to make things like GitPod feel uncomfortable while making VS Code feel good.

[–] Lucky@programming.dev 1 points 2 years ago

Vscode is beginning it's enshittification cycle. They got everyone using it, now they start locking it down. Much of the fear is what Microsoft could do, not so much what they have done so far

The C# extension going proprietary is the smoke to the coming fire though, and highlights what could happen to other languages. The new extension cannot be installed on open source redistributions like vscodium. What happens now if the typescript extension gets a similar update? Or Python? Etc.

They've made it so technically anyone can spin off their own extensions marketplace, and attempt to make their own C#/typescript/Python extensions, but can they truly compete with Microsoft? That is the fracture the author is talking about. They've effectively made a walled garden out of an open source platform, they've just been playing nice to hook devs and companies in before the slow enshittification