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Validating idea to my working class father? 21yo - From making 45k$ in my last business to starting from 0 and asking him for money (alien.top)
submitted 1 year ago by AverageJohnnyTW@alien.top to c/entrepreneur@indiehackers.space
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TL;DR - 21-year-old entrepreneur, ran semi-successful business, faced burnout, got diagnosed with ADHD, seeking advice on a 'service as a product' design business, and need to validate it so I don't waste money that my father wants to lend me to run ads.

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I’m 21yo entrepreneur with a bit of an unusual journey and I need advice.Long story short, traditional education system didn’t suit me, so I was always learning stuff on my own. Even thought I come from lower working class, I was always into entrepreneurship, literally selling YouTube banners for 0.5$ when I was 12.

After huge success with my Discord development agency last year, my journey took a turn for worse is when I experienced severe burnout, leading to a year of inactivity. There wasn’t a single day where I didn’t think about how I’m wasting time. Few days ago, I got diagnosed with ADHD. I decided to take meds and it was like putting glasses on for the first time, so without missing a beat I jumped right back.

Now I’m at a crossroad. I have an idea for a “service as a product” design business, I made the MVP on the freelancing site I ran my last business on, since I have a bit of past clients to try to contact there. Problem is, all the money I’ve earned is gone and I literally had to ask my dad to lend me some money to run ads from his saving budget. He agreed to lend me a bit to get started, but I need to validate my idea to him. I definitely feel bad asking him for money and would feel even worse if I at least can't get assurance this is something that could work.

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This is where I need your opinion and advice if this is something viable (of course any advice in general would make my day):

  • General idea is that a client can make unlimited design requests for a flat monthly fee, instead of having to work with multiple freelancers or pay in-house designer (which can be costly, especially at times when they don't have work for them)
    • Do you think this is something viable?
    • Do you think there is a market out there for this?
    • What would be the best way to promote this?
    • What would we the best way to communicate the value to potential clients?

I always try my best to give advice to people when they need it, so I really hope you guys can give me guidance this time 🫶

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[–] kliparc@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

How can you burn out at 21?

[–] AverageJohnnyTW@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

I was always aiming for 110% quality. That meant... 10-13 hours workdays, waking up at 3am to answer clients from different time-zones... now I know some of it is to contribute to ADHD like being unable to finish tasks, waiting for adrenaline to kick in, etc..

[–] MoustachePants@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

"Instead of giving you advice, let me ask you a question.

Now that we have so many AIs popping up that can design good looking graphics for fracture of the cost what do you offer that it can't replace?"

[–] AnonJian@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's not the idea, that idea has been done. It's the quality of the service and filtering out bottom-feeders. All you'll validate is how many people are willing to cheat a designer out to screw themselves.

Although there are exceptions, design has painted itself into a corner for the most part.

The vast majority of designers are the ultimate wantrepreneur. Out to pretty the shit out of business without any knowledge or regard to pragmatic business effectiveness. And much like any wantrepreneur who thinks pronouncing the word is the hardest part of entrepreneurship -- anything these guys don't know just isn't important.

Right now a business owner can clear out a room asking designers "Should I use a carousel?" Within just a few similar questions designers prove they can't support business. There are a million 'pretty' templates, many are free, so there really an economic argument to be made. Other than most designers are in a race to the bottom and zero is a very possible destination point.

Don't even get me started on the people who think seeing a commercial they like makes them an advertising expert.

Design-by-the-ton is the natural progression and not new. However, you could take the next step and you offer to pay clients. Might as well get where the industry is headed that much sooner.

​

Carousels Are Killing Your Conversion Rate: Here’s How to Fix That apparently blurting out "It's good for User Experience" doesn't work as well as it once did.

Is Your Designer Killing Your Conversions? Is "I can help. Mom said I could" a convincing argument?

7 Signs This Person Isn’t Actually A UX Designer With point eight being these people should own the customer, yet they keep getting paid a pittance and deserve even less.

[–] AverageJohnnyTW@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I completely agree that it’s not just about the idea but the quality of the service. And I completely agree most young people these days jump right into the pit of “wantapreneurs”.

In my case, I bring much more than just design to the table. I’ve ran successful marketing campaigns, built communities, and, since I don’t want to go to school and become a doctor, I definitely used my Mensa-level IQ to learn a bunch of things and always will.

Aesthetic alone don’t make a design effective, but it sure can help if you know what you’re doing.I'm not here to just 'pretty up' businesses, but I’m here to help them stand out from the rest, and convey their messages the best.

Doesn’t mean that they’ll look most aesthetically pleasing, it means that they’ll get designs that will attract their target audience and customers.

Again, I very much understand the concerns about design-by-the-ton and the prevalence of wantrepreneurs, I still believe in the value of design when done right. It's about solving problems, not just making things look nice.I know this, now you know it, but what would be the best way to communicate this to potential clients?

[–] AnonJian@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

I completely agree that it’s not just about the idea but the quality of the service.

Detailing the measures you undertake to insure value is provided would have been nice to have.

I definitely used my Mensa-level IQ to learn a bunch of things and always will.

One does hope communication skill will top that list, sooner rather than later. Which brings us to the inevitable end of this discussion.

I know this, now you know it, but what would be the best way to communicate this to potential clients?

I know one thing, plenty more want to claim knowledge than demonstrate it. That may not qualify me for Mensa. But the way to demonstrate design done right is filthy money, increased conversions. Anybody claiming the knowledge you do should understand the phrase "I beat client controls."

Now for everybody else reading this who is warming up a keyboard to write "Wut?" One of the best techniques to use when you don't have a reputation is some form of performance-based offer. "Don't pay me for my claims. You do not have to take my word. Pay only for results."

A test is customary. And split-run testing is fairly well known.

Filling in those details -- without screwing yourselves -- I leave to Mensa level IQs.

[–] MoustachePants@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Sorry if Im being negativ, but Instead of giving you advice, let me ask you a question.

Now that we have so many AIs popping up that can design good looking graphics for fracture of the cost what do you offer that it can't replace?

[–] AverageJohnnyTW@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

I've just mentioned something similar in one of the comments above.

Aesthetic alone don’t make a design effective, but it sure can help if you know what you’re doing.I'm not here to just 'pretty up' businesses, but I’m here to help them stand out from the rest, and convey their messages the best.
Doesn’t mean that they’ll look most aesthetically pleasing, it means that they’ll get designs that will attract their target audience and customers.

AI, for better or worse, still can't do this to an extent that is applicable.

[–] ItsColeOnReddit@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This service exists. Especially in my industry of apparel printing. You will have two types of clients- one that does basically over pay and needs a few designs a month tops- ideal. And the other will demand dozens to hundreds of designs with unlimited revisions. In my business we can take on 40+ orders a week. If your business then handled my art you would be doing potentially 160 jobs with revisions for a flat rate. So you will need to know who you will staff and how you will charge proportionally.

[–] AverageJohnnyTW@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

I definitely noticed phrased my sentences wrong 😅 I didn't mean to say this is some kind of a new idea in general, but rather a new idea to my dad.

What I made sure to say is "Hey, you can request unlimited designs, but put them in a queue based on importance and we'll do them 1by1 with x hours average delivery time". I'm aiming for quality and not quantity, but that doesn't mean we can reuse designs and styles that we created to make up for quantity when it's needed. The goal is to make designs that actually gets results.

Whilst average delivery time is, let's say 24-48h, if a client requests a website design and marks that as the most important it will take longer. In practice, client can always say hey I know I've request a web design, but can you pause that today and design x.

Of course, if I a business needs more than that I could definitely come up with an offer, staff up and charge accordingly.

[–] Jaynen00@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Not meant to offend you but I feel like the diagnosed with ADHD is not needed in this thread, does it have some direct correlation to the assistance you need or is specifically a part of your business model? Otherwise to me it’s like you added the like “I like cats” “blue is my favorite color”

[–] AverageJohnnyTW@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

No worries, that's definitely a valid question.

I mentioned it because I said my business failed and I burned out. So to not get plane comments like "you just didn't work hard" or "you have to get disciplined to run a business" I specifically mentioned ADHD and how meds allow me to actually do the "boring" work I had insane trouble doing before.

[–] willslater99@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Completely disagree mate.

As an ADHD entrepreneur, it completely changes your brain chemistry, the way success happens, the way productivity works, the way things get done.

I run a fairly successful business nowadays, I previously ran a fairly successful business. There's a 4 year gap in the middle there with a string of failures - just about paying myself a wage. The difference? During the first business, I was self medicating with cocaine and amphetamines and had more success at 17 than any member of my family had during their entire life, I didn't do drugs because I liked the high, I did it because it was the only time in my life I'd ever been productive. I got clean after it almost killed me, watched my business die, watched the next few fail and then 9 months ago got an ADHD diagnosis, started my current company and have 2 employees and a fully functioning growing business now.

'ADHD entrepreneur' isn't like saying 'entrepreneur who likes cats', it's a disability on the level of 'marathon runner missing a lung', it's a key part of how human beings function that ADHD people lack and being on medication for it is a huge qualifier to the successes and failures achieved.

OP (or anyone else this could benefit), if you're ever looking for someone to speak to about this, feel free to DM me or have a look at a group called Joyfully Different. It's a business network my friend Mark runs specifically for Neurodivergent founders and entrepreneurs.

[–] Jaynen00@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That’s great to hear your story I am afraid I’m a bit jaded from seeing all the self internet diagnosis of ADHD these days I feel like doctors just throw it out as soon as someone says “I have trouble focusing”. Being an entrepreneur is hard in general and success is built off failure. My point was more that while it is context it is irrelevant context in this case, the op does not have a disability for example that requires them to use a screen reader or text to speech and thus needs business advice or ideas that they can perform the functions of working around said disability. Does he need to operate his design or discord business differently because of the ADHD diagnosis? I don’t believe so? Can I not believe so and still be understanding and sympathetic towards the struggles of having a chronic medical issue like ADHD I believe so.

[–] AverageJohnnyTW@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

I completely get your view on ADHD terms being thrown out there a lot, especially in todays day and age where everyone has problem focusing.

If it makes my point any more valid, getting diagnosis where I'm from, especially if you're an adult is extremely hard, but my ADHD was so obvious that the journey wasn't as painful.

Now that I'm on meds there probably isn't a need to run my business any different then everyone else, but before meds my business and I suffered through a lot because of inability to complete and finish tasks.

I know ADHD is hard to understand, but first imagine it as 100 thoughts at max volume apear in your head every minute. You start doing task a but remember there are tasks b,c and e which are also important then oh that's a nice car, I should reply to my friend, who's arguing outside, where are my keys... Task A is long gone.

Focusing on a task is like holding your hand above a stove. If it's at 1, you can hold it for a long time. Sure it can be a bit uncomfortable and if you do it for too long it will be painful. Now imagine that stove is at 10, how long would you be able to hold your hand above it before moving it? And what about next time? Your brain will tell protect you by increasing the uncomfortable feeling so you move it away quicker.

[–] skullforce@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yes I've seen many design subscription services. Basically it's like being an agency of record for a monthly fee. I've seen quite a few recently, like check product hunt. I've seen them for ux, product design as well as marketing design.

As fast as the business idea goes.. Sounds like a ok-ish business model, but to me seems like a lot of work for not great margins and then dealing with cheap clients and cheap design labor. I guess if you have access to a pool of talent willing to work within your budget it could be profitable.

[–] AverageJohnnyTW@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You're right, there are a bunch of them.

When I started my Discord development business I was actually one of the first people to be doing it. Of course, as the market proved itself there was a bunch of people doing the same thing. How I separated myself later on is I charged premium, focused on quality client and delivering the best work. You could buy a Discord server from a guy selling it for 10$ or from me selling it for 395$. People who wanted quality and great buyer experience have literally joined a 2-4 weeks waitlist instead of going to other seller, even of similar price.

That's what I'm aiming for now. I preferred working with premium clients, since they were much better communicators, they were invested and it was a win-win situation overall.

As they say, you can make 1000$ by selling 100 pieces of 10$ product or just 1 at 1000$.

[–] K_v_A@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Glad to hear you are doing better and ready to start another venture!

Have you considered ramping this business back up? Then you can rely on a known skill & quantity of work while you figure out if your new idea is worth pursuing?

I would avoid over committing and under delivering and it seems like unlimited designs will lead you down the road of burnout very quickly.

[–] AverageJohnnyTW@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

Thank you!

In a morbid sense of great timing, my burnout happened just a month before demand for our Discord server completely went away (due to most clients at that time coming from the crypto space which then crashed resulting in less projects being started)

Design is something I've being doing since I was 11. I incorporated design into every business I had giving me a chance to not just learn how to make pretty stuff, but actually make great designs that solve a problem for me and many of my clients.

My idea is to try to work with as few clients as I can, charge a premium, but delivering the best quality as I always have.

Also, the system is set up so clients can add as many requests as they want, but they're put in a queue based on importance they decide for each new request. Communication is clear that average delivery time for a request is 24-48h, but some requests, like web designs, can take up to two weeks or even more (depending on complexity), and some requests, like text changes (if requested during work time) can be done much quicker.

Let me know if this all makes sense haha

[–] wellwisher407@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

Well best advice i can give is you should make and shopify website and sell products on it and i also have many more ideas if you seem interested let me know just text me

[–] Design_Priest@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

As an agency owner I’ve been wondering: what’s stopping me from using a service like yours for $500 to $1000 a month or whatever, and sending ALL my design requests to you? We’d make $30k a month and put your business under. Or push it to its limits.

Are the requests truly unlimited?

Or is white labelling not allowed and that’s how these businesses avoid this problem?

Or is it not a problem? Even though we’d be making 10X what you charge, it would be all good?

Of course then there’s the question of whether the work is actually any good.

From everything I’ve seen, these services only work for low end B2C marketing where the design is generic and cartoony.

There’s a lot of experience and strategy and thought and discussions with clients to produce the work we do. I don’t see how that could work with a $500 a month unlimited model.

We’ve had clients on retainer in the past (much higher rates though) and I didn’t like it. I prefer to just charge by the hour.

To answer your actual question, show your dad the competitors. But make sure you can prove they’re profitable. And how you’re going to be better than them.

I think it could be done with the right creative director at the helm. The design I’ve seen from design pickle and the like is ass so it wouldn’t be hard but you have to make sure you can find good offshore talent.