this post was submitted on 04 Nov 2023
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Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).

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Guys I truly don't mean to spam the community but these are legit questions. Yesterday I posted about linux compatibility and computers and every single person gave me knowledge to use and you're all awesome.

Now my question is, I will undoubtedly be purchasing an older machine, would an older but good running machine still be able to install the latest kernels or versions of distros or are you limited to older versions only, based on the era of your laptop or is it really about the hardware you have? I know ram, disk space, basic stuff like that matters with distros, but I know that will not be a problem. I guess I'm thinking beyond that like processors. are older processors or anything else hold certain machines from being compatible with the newest and greatest kernels? Thanks!

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[–] harry315@feddit.de 65 points 1 year ago (2 children)

AFAIK if you buy any computer from within the last 20 years, there's a good chance you can get a 6.X Kernel running on it. 32-bit support is fading out, though. If you buy a 64-bit computer, you'll be able (with sufficient RAM and hard disk space) to install any modern distro on it.

[–] IsoKiero@sopuli.xyz 21 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'd say that single core performance and amount of RAM you have are the biggest issues with running anything on old hardware. Apparently, in theory, you could run even modern kernel with just 4MB of RAM (or even less, good luck finding an 32bit system with less than 4MB). I don't think you could fit any kind of graphical environment on top of that, but for an SSH terminal or something else lightweight it would be enough.

However a modern browser will easily consume couple gigabytes of RAM and even a 'lightweight' desktop environment like XFCE will consume couple hundred MB's without much going on. So it depends heavily on what you consider to be 'old'.

The computer at garage (which I'm writing this with) is Thinkstation S20 I got for free from the office years ago is from 2011. 12GB of RAM, 4 core Xeon CPU and aftermarket SSD on SATA-bus and this thing can easily do everything I need for it in this use case. Browsing the web on how to fix whatever I'm working with at the garage, listen music from spotify, occasional youtube-video, signal and things lke that. Granted this was on a higher end when it was new, but maybe it gives some perspective on things.

[–] Eldritch@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm running Arch on a very early 2000s computer. Dual core athlon with two gigabytes of RAM. With KDE desktop on a period correct display. Works great as long as you are not trying to push it hard with modern tasks. Browses the internet just fine and can even watch videos of a size more appropriate for that era. But yeah, you get into 1080p displays and high resolution videos. Or modern bloated websites. It's definitely going to chug.

[–] IsoKiero@sopuli.xyz 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Oh, right, the screen resolution is something I didn't even consider that much. My system has 1600x1200 display and GPU is Quadro FX570. This thing would absolutely struggle anything higher than 1080p, but as all the parts are free (minus the SSD, 128G drives are something like 30€ or less) this thing is easily good enough for what I use it for and it wouldn't be that big of a stretch to run this thing as a daily driver, just add bigger SSD and maybe a bit more modern GPU with a 2k display and you'd be good to go.

And 1600x1200 isn't that much anyways, if memory serves I used to have that resolution on a CRT back in the day. At least moving things around is much easier today.

[–] Eldritch@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

As old as my system, is. Anything much more modern than what's already in it would be bottled necked by the system bus. It's PCIe. Not PCI 2 3 or 4 lol. And SATA, early SATA at that. Still has two IDE headers. But I used to use a lot less to run blender on back in the day. I have it pushing a good old 1024 x768 4x3 display.

[–] Macaroni9538@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

Then why have I had such a terrible experience with my newer Dell Xps 13 9310 experience? user error or proprietary b.s.? because I have been told that the new Dells are going the more propriety route.

[–] smileyhead@discuss.tchncs.de 37 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Linux kernel is really good at backwards compatibility, better than any other OS.

Software can be bad at being backwards compatible with older kernels, but you should be able to run newer ones.

[–] Macaroni9538@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago

I'm sorry, but what exactly do you mean by backwards compatibility? Like if I installed the latest version of say Ubuntu, it will automatically scale back the kernel to one that fits the specs of my computer?

[–] stella@lemm.ee 27 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Usually, yes.

A great way to breath new life into old hardware is to install Linux.

[–] Macaroni9538@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

so basically if the computer has the specs that meet the distros newest version's requirements, it theoretically should be gold?

[–] nik282000@lemmy.ca 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ram is pretty much your limiting factor. I run the latest version of Debian on a machine from 2008 but it only has 1.8GB of ram so for a desktop it is a little sluggish.

[–] msage@programming.dev 8 points 1 year ago

Use LXDE/XFCE and stay away from Chrome. And any games.

[–] ElPresidente@lemmy.ml 22 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

So long as the computer supports an instruction set from like the last 30 years you can run the latest kernel.

Here's a 133 Mhz Pentium running Gentoo with a very recent kernel.

I'd probably recommend something like Debian though unless you are really pushing the limits of the hardware.

[–] PipedLinkBot@feddit.rocks 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

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[–] SirEDCaLot@lemmy.today 1 points 1 year ago

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[–] ipsirc@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

"Linux Kernel 4.14.8 (Dec 2017)" - Would this be the "very recent"?

[–] beyond@linkage.ds8.zone 3 points 1 year ago

That video came out in January 2018, so at the time it was "very recent." I don't think anything would have changed significantly since then.

4.14 is close to EOL, but it is still very well supported.

[–] ElPresidente@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

As far as I know. nothing done in that video would be impossible on the latest kernel. Everything would compile and run comparably.

[–] Atemu@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Make sure that device doesn't require proprietary drivers (commonly WiFi or GPU). If the hardware in question needs those and you need the component to work, I wouldn't take it for free because you'd be stuck with shitty support on an ancient kernel.

Most commonly, thio affects broadcom WiFi and Nvidia GPUs.

[–] CalicoJack@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 1 year ago (4 children)

If the computer is modern enough that you'd consider buying it to use, I can almost guarantee that you'll be fine to run the latest distros. I just threw Arch + KDE on a 14ish year old laptop I found, and it runs so well that I may daily drive it for a while just for the hell of it.

At worst, you may need a lighter-weight desktop environment (DE) than some of the pretty ones you see in screenshots. And those are simple to install and try out.

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[–] jlh@lemmy.jlh.name 10 points 1 year ago

They just removed support for pcimcia wifi cards, so don't get a 20+ years old laptop that doesn't have built in wifi.

[–] atomkarinca@lemmygrad.ml 10 points 1 year ago (4 children)

i have a t420 and running up-to-date void linux perfectly fine.

[–] lidstah@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 1 year ago

good old x201 here (i5-720m iirc), 8GB ram, sata ssd. Debian stable. No DE, just stumpWM. Not watching 4k youtube videos but runs fairly well for a 13 years old machine.

[–] Extrasvhx9he@lemmy.today 2 points 1 year ago

Same only suffers with gpu support on my t430. Have to use nouveau to get some kind of external signal from the displayport

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[–] notthebees@reddthat.com 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Probably yes. As long as it's 64 bit, it will run without issue, hardware dependant. For 32 bit machines, you have to be more careful. The 32 bit core duo and pentium m CPUs don't support pae.

Edit: First Gen Pentium M don't show pae support as a flag but they do.support it. You have to set forcepae for some distros. I read the page incorrectly. Pentium M laptops that have 5 in their model number, like the 735 are second gen Pentium M

https://reddthat.com/pictrs/image/eb8304a8-d5b6-494c-9fd0-96c03ab06766.png

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[–] nyan@lemmy.cafe 9 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Nearly all hardware support is kept in the kernel until and unless it bitrots to the point of unusability. I've had no issues with a 5.10-series kernel on my 2008 laptop, and I don't expect any issues when I finally get around to upgrading it to 6.x (well, except the usual tedium of compiling a kernel on a machine that weak).

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[–] Pantherina@feddit.de 9 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Oh you again, yes Linux supports every normal hardware, and even a lot of crazy ones like Risc-V

On Android the system is bundled with the firmware as it comes from the same people. And for some reason those people dont like providing updates for sane amounts of time, like... 20 years?

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[–] ricecake@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 year ago (4 children)

In general you should be fine. Might have some issues if you want 32 bit.

Most likely difficulty is if you get something with "weird" peripherals that has gone from support.

A laptop with touch sensitive buttons that was only made by Dell for one model in 2008 is something where you might have difficulty finding support.

[–] squaresinger@feddit.de 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Old laptops can often be a pain if they don't have mainstream hardware.

I have a laptop with a touchpad made by Elan. I couldn't even find a website for them, but the laptop's support page has a Windows driver that works well.

I put Linux on there maybe 5 years ago, and there just is no driver for this touchpad on Linux, so it works in PS2 mouse modus and nothing else. No multitouch, no gestures, no way to change any slightly more advanced settings like sensitivity.

[–] probablyaCat@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ha I had this issue once upon a time too! And the one above with the wifi driver b43-fwcutter. Apparently not great laptop choices. The touchpad situation was awful, because the sensitivity was always insane. IIRC I had a way to slow it down, but then it was so so slow that I had to go over it like 30 times to get across the diagonal. Good times.

[–] squaresinger@feddit.de 3 points 1 year ago

I vividly remember that time when I tried to get Linux running on my old laptop in the mid-2000s. There was no wifi driver for that card in the repo, but the manufacturer provided a driver to download. But it was in C++ source code that failed to compile because it was so outdated.

So there I was as a teenager who barely knew a little C at that time, porting the driver from outdated C++ to the then-modern version. It wasn't easy but I managed to.

I am so happy it's not 2005 anymore, when it comes to Linux.

[–] CorrodedCranium@leminal.space 2 points 1 year ago

Yeah kind of a similar story but on my iBook G4 I had trouble getting wireless internet working with modern distros because b43-fwcutter (I think) was unavailable. I ended up installing Yellow Dog Linux to get around it

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[–] words_number@programming.dev 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yes, the linux kernel will work! I'd say it's even more likely that wifi, soundcard, etc. work without any problems than if you'd buy a bleeding edge laptop (although these mostly also just work nowadays). The oldest machine I've got is a laptop from 12 years ago which easily runs modern linux, but even much older machines shouldn't have a problem with that, at least not with the kernel.

[–] Macaroni9538@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

perfect, so it sorta just depends on the specs like ram and such? are their any other things like cpus that I should be looking for?

[–] LeFantome@programming.dev 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I have the various latest release of EndeavourOS running on a 2008 iMac and a Dell laptop that I cannot remember the model of that is even older.

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I have a Surface Go 1 perfectly running Fedora while running an Ubuntu VM at the same time. The hardware isn’t old, but it ain’t powerful.

I also have a 2012 MacBook Pro running Fedora as a f it was a monster. But the Ram and harddrive have been upgraded.

So I guess it’s perfectly fine.

[–] mackwinston@feddit.uk 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

How old is "older?"

I run the latest Debian on a 10 year old Macbook Pro. Linux has given this laptop a second life as a lab machine - it's still plenty fast enough and it has a really nice screen (Retina) which Debian gets right out of the box with no tweaking. The only thing I needed to do when installing Debian is manually get the drivers for the WiFi hardware during the install (although Debian has the non-free firmware by default these days, they aren't permitted to distribute all firmware and the WiFi hardware in this machine unfortunately happened to be one of those).

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[–] Smokeydope@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

The biggest concern is how much ram and how fast a processor of the older computer. Most modern distros use about a gig of ram on startup and prefer a processor made in the last 20 years. If your computer has 500mb ram and a single core 1ghz pentium its gonna choke trying to run linux mint.

Instead certain Linux distributions are specifically tailored to work on extremely old and underpowered computers such as puppy Linux. These are modern distributions with updated kernels but are extremely minimalist in nature.

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